D&D 5E Characters are not their statistics and abilities

Everything I say about the game world pertains to how that world operates, as reflected in the ruleset at hand. It resembles our own world in many ways, but they aren't the same place, and you can't use an argument about how reality works to say how something should work in the game world unless it's actually supported within the rules of the game.

Okay. So in the fiction of your game world, things function so differently than they do in our world, and adhere so closely to the mechanics of the game, that it is the only relevant data. I don't know if I can view things that way, because I think it makes the characters too aware of the numbers. As if they could look at a wound and say how many HP of damage it caused, and how it could have done a couple more of a stronger sword was used.

I suppose that's just a fundamental different way of viewing things. For me, I feel like the rules are a simplification of real world factors (in addition to purely fantastic ones)and the characters in my fictional world are aware of more than the simplified version. I mean this from a story sense, or a character building sense, about why they would select one weapon over the other.
 

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The rules in the book are not an accurate reflection of the conditions the Romans were fighting under. The game world is not that similar to our real world. Our real world is a lot more complicated, and small factors that might matter in our world are simply non-factors in the game world.

If the Romans were fighting in the game world, they would have lost, because the world doesn't work how they expect it to work. It's exactly like when the Flash goes to the Marvel universe, and he can't run very fast because the Speed Force doesn't exist there.


You weren't talking about rules in a book. You were talking about real life historical examples to support your point. Real life historical examples you are wrong on. End stop.
 

Saelorn ..History is full of that sort of thing happening, and the guys with heavier swords were more effective than the guys who tried to brute force with a lighter blade, after adjusting for outside factors......
Please tell me you are joking. I can see the tavern talk. Sam Scimitar vs Larry Longsword. Sounds like it go the way of a lot of favorite firearm debates.
For those interest. Nice rule of thumb is 1pd per foot of steel in general. For more research
Oakeshott, Ewart books and articles.
A Knight and his Armour, A Knight in Battle, A Knight and his Castle, A Knight and his Castle, A Knight and his Horse , A Knight and his Weapons, Dark Age Warrior*, The Archaeology of Weapons , The Sword in the Age of Chivalry . Journal of the Arms and Armour Society of London, A Royal Sword in Westminster Abbey in The Connoisseur Magazine 1951*. The Sword in Anglo-Saxon England *, Fighting Men (with Henry Treece)*, The Blindfold Game*, Sound of Battle (with Leonard Clark)*, European Weapons and Armour, Records of the Medieval Sword*, Sword in Hand*, Sword in the Viking Age* (not yet published). http://www.oakeshott.org/

Brian Price Techniques of Medieval Armour Reproduction
Dr Jeffery L Forgeng The Medieval art of Swordsmanship
Hans Talhoffer Fechtbuch

I can see my NPC's draft leather. "Greetings to Norman Normal NPC. You have gifted with a FREE SUIT OF LEATHER ARMOUR. Please report Saelorn Research Services to claim your gift.!"
 

You weren't talking about rules in a book. You were talking about real life historical examples to support your point. Real life historical examples you are wrong on. End stop.
If you're talking about my countless examples of armies with long-swords outperforming those other armies who had short-swords, I was talking about in-game history. I didn't think I had to mention that part. It should have been obvious.
 

Okay. So in the fiction of your game world, things function so differently than they do in our world, and adhere so closely to the mechanics of the game, that it is the only relevant data.
The rules that we apply at the table must be sufficient to describe the events that they're trying to model, otherwise you would get a different result by using the rules than would actually happen within the game world. If scimitars were better from horseback, then you'd expect a confrontation between two otherwise-identical cavalry soldiers to favor the one with the scimitar over the one with the long-sword. Or even if scimitars are only better for attacking infantry, you'd expect the mounted soldier with the scimitar to outperform the one with the long-sword in that situation.

Going by that logic, the outcome of an interaction would depend on whether or not you're applying the rules or just ad-hoc-ing it, which isn't something that could make sense to anyone within the game world. It's inconsistent, based on factors that only exist outside of their universe.
I don't know if I can view things that way, because I think it makes the characters too aware of the numbers. As if they could look at a wound and say how many HP of damage it caused, and how it could have done a couple more of a stronger sword was used.
If the characters couldn't look at a 7-point wound and a 27-point wound, and tell the difference between them in any meaningful way, then they wouldn't know whether to use a Cure I spell or a Cure III spell. The game becomes almost impossible to play as a game because your character doesn't have enough information to make meaningful decisions.

Have you ever played in a game where the GM refused to tell you how many HP you have lost? It's terrible. And if you're playing the healer, then it quickly devolves into a twenty questions game of trying to figure out what the GM actually means when they describe anything.

Given that most character in most games can actually determine whether to cast Cure I or Cure III, and when they are running low on HP, there must be some observable in-game reality which corresponds to HP loss of varying severity. You know, just like in the real world you can (barring complications) generally distinguish between wounds of varying severity.

Granted, the in-game difference between 1d6+2 and 1d8+2 would take a while to observe if you're only relying on personal experience, but you would quickly figure out that the long-sword can create a more grievous wound than a scimitar under ideal circumstances. And it would also be obvious, in practice, over the course of several engagements or with a large army. I mean, the average goblin has what? Like five HP? If a long-sword drops a goblin in one go 3/4 of the time, but a scimitar only drops a goblin 1/2 of the time, then you'd figure that out pretty quickly while on a goblin-hunting expedition.
 

If you're talking about my countless examples of armies with long-swords outperforming those other armies who had short-swords, I was talking about in-game history. I didn't think I had to mention that part. It should have been obvious.

I'm talking about what you said that I quoted. About you saying "just go out to a chopping mat". Nothing about in game. Your "real life" examples are simply not true, and shows you have no idea who various swords actually work. That's what I was referring to.
 

I'm talking about what you said that I quoted. About you saying "just go out to a chopping mat". Nothing about in game. Your "real life" examples are simply not true, and shows you have no idea who various swords actually work. That's what I was referring to.
In-game. Take your in-game long-sword out to an in-game tree, and hack at it. Then repeat the process with your in-game scimitar. The long-sword will cut deeper, because of the in-game reality which corresponds to dealing more damage.
 

I can see the tavern talk. Sam Scimitar vs Larry Longsword. Sounds like it go the way of a lot of favorite firearm debates.
Especially 'stopping power' that's right outta the .45 vs 9mm debate. Seductively intuitive, backed up by a simple statistic, but not nearly the whole story.

...

Really, for D&D purposes, though, the myth of a weapon is probably more important to model than the history or probable scientific reality, because fantasy is a lot more about myth than about reality. D&D longbowmen should be picking their targets at 300 yds, splitting arrows in archery competitions, and shooting clean through plate armor. Knights should be cleaving through mounted foes helm to crotch and slicing through the horse's spine for good measure or spitting them four on a lance. Katanas.... well, never mind katanas.

It's a fantasy RPG, not a medieval simulation.
 


In-game. Take your in-game long-sword out to an in-game tree, and hack at it. Then repeat the process with your in-game scimitar. The long-sword will cut deeper, because of the in-game reality which corresponds to dealing more damage.

Sorry, I don't buy your goal post shifting. You said take various swords and go at a cutting mat and see how deeper they cut. For one, you can't *see* in game. It's all pretend. There's nothing there to physically look at so your statement makes no sense for an in game only context. Your language suggests examing real life examples.
 

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