D&D 5E I want my players to ignore class in character creation

[HomegrownHydra]

My players tend toward, ”I’ll be an elf cleric cause it seems cool, tell me what they can do“. Where I’m trying to instead draw out what they want to do

They told you what they want to do, which is play an elf cleric.

All I’m trying for is to get players build characters up rather than down, ”I want to be able to do this and that, tell me what I am” as opposed to, “I am X, tell me what I can do”.

But why do you want this? They obviously care more about general thematics than specific abilities so why are you trying to push them to do something they don't want to do? Just let them pick the class they think is cool.

 

[TwoSix]

All I’m trying for is to get players build characters up rather than down, ”I want to be able to do this and that, tell me what I am” as opposed to, “I am X, tell me what I can do”.

And that's totally fine, I'm a big fan of designing characters from that "build a set of explicit powers for your character" mindset. But one has to keep in mind that's a big cognitive leap from "pick a class from a list of 12".

 

[Gorck]

Yeah, I don’t think most people get what I’m going for esp. with the thoughts DnD can’t do this. My players tend toward, ”I’ll be an elf cleric cause it seems cool, tell me what they can do“. Where I’m trying to instead draw out what they want to do, whatever they want to do or look like will be allowed, and once we know that, we‘ll figure out what race and class will get closest to that…and then we’ll bend rules of those races an classes to make whatever possible.

I actually think the Lego block idea is very helpful. Here’s a pile of stuff, take the parts and build a character. Let them grow it up from parts.

All I’m trying for is to get players build characters up rather than down, ”I want to be able to do this and that, tell me what I am” as opposed to, “I am X, tell me what I can do”.

In that case, building off my previous suggestion of using the Table on page 45 of the PHB, take a couple pieces of paper and cover up all the columns except for Description. Have each player read the description of what each class is about and decide which one fits their concept. Then, after everyone chooses their concept, pull the paper away to reveal the corresponding class. They would obviously be restricted to the PHB classes this way as opposed to the Artificer or Blood Hunter, but 12 classes is a lot to choose from.

 

[Steampunkette]

No, no... I -absolutely- understand what you're trying to do, Smackpixi. I've been playing this game for most of my life and I've seen dozens of other people do the exact same thing. That's why I broke it into the Lego/Blocks analogy that you seem to have grabbed onto the wrong part of and discarded the rest.

The disconnect is in expectations and desires. Not that "D&D can't do this". D&D can be a stepping stone to a more fiddly system or it can be altered into being a more fiddly system.

The issue is that your players want to play Blocks and you want to play Legos using the blocks. They desire and expect blocks because what they have is blocks.

 

[pablomaz]

Why are you playing a class-based system if you don't want to think about classes? It makes no sense.

 

[DavyGreenwind]

Have you ever thought about using the Cypher System from Monte Cook? It's a simple, genre-agnostic system that does exactly what you are describing.

 

[FrogReaver]

Yeah, I don’t think most people get what I’m going for esp. with the thoughts DnD can’t do this.

I assure you - we get it. I think the confusion is that you expected this to register as a universally good thing and thus are trying to square that with the pushback and thus the idea that we are not understanding. But we are. The pushback is about whether what you are attempting is good for these players.

My players tend toward, ”I’ll be an elf cleric cause it seems cool, tell me what they can do“. Where I’m trying to instead draw out what they want to do, whatever they want to do or look like will be allowed, and once we know that, we‘ll figure out what race and class will get closest to that…and then we’ll bend rules of those races an classes to make whatever possible.

Personally. I would absolutely hate this for a number of reasons.

1. When I’m a newer player to a game I want to get a firm grasp of the game as is before I add a bunch of custom mods.

2. For me, power of abilities and thematics go hand in hand. For example - Fireball doing 1d6 damage just isn’t going to be compelling despite being just as thematic.

3. Part of what I love about d&d is figuring out what is effective and what isn’t. Your proposal doesn’t allow for any of that in character creation.

4. I’d be at a complete loss about what kind of character to make without some idea of how their abilities are mechanically represented in the game - because that mechanical representation really matters to me.

I actually think the Lego block idea is very helpful. Here’s a pile of stuff, take the parts and build a character. Let them grow it up from parts.

All I’m trying for is to get players build characters up rather than down, ”I want to be able to do this and that, tell me what I am” as opposed to, “I am X, tell me what I can do”.

Example of the problem.
Player: I want to heal and cast fire spells.
DM: You are a light cleric!
Player: But I don’t want to have anything to do with the gods.
DM: How about divine soul sorcerer?
Player: Still too god-adjacent.

*Side note - with enough work you can make anything work out - but to overcome the issues I would have might take more work than you are willing to put in. For example - a handful of example characters and the creation process that you could share with your players would go a long way IMO. That might even be an exercise we could help you with here. Seeing examples of the process playing out could really help them get started.

 

[MichaelSomething]

Give your player personally quizzes for their characters??

 

[TwoSix]

Give your player personally quizzes for their characters??

“What are you playing?”

“Oh, I’m a 6th level ENTJ.”

 

[Micah Sweet]

In that case, building off my previous suggestion of using the Table on page 45 of the PHB, take a couple pieces of paper and cover up all the columns except for Description. Have each player read the description of what each class is about and decide which one fits their concept. Then, after everyone chooses their concept, pull the paper away to reveal the corresponding class. They would obviously be restricted to the PHB classes this way as opposed to the Artificer or Blood Hunter, but 12 classes is a lot to choose from.

Seems like a psychological trick. I'm not sure I wouldn't be offended if someone tried to pull that on me.