Characters- Ongoing Druid Debate

[Diirk]

"Animals" are meant while originally in 3.0 was just what we call animals today, in 3.5 it was expanded to include those creatures that were "Beasts" that did exist at one point (eg. dinosaurs).

Beasts that were mythical creatures all got lumped into "magical beasts". Giant Eagles never existed, so couldn't be animals. Not that Dire Bats existed, but oh well...

Also I'd ignore the bit about the disguises.. thats there because alter self doesn't change your stats etc and has a valid use as a disguise. For wildshaping I'd focus more on the "You can freely designate the new form’s minor physical qualities (such as hair color, hair texture, and skin color) within the normal ranges for a creature of that kind. The new form’s significant physical qualities (such as height, weight, and gender) are also under your control, but they must fall within the norms for the new form’s kind."

Its not as explicit as it should be, but thats because polymorph references alter self instead of just spelling out what it can do... that tends to make things less clear than they should be.

Edit: Oh, treants are huge too. By the time you get wildshape huge, you have wildshape plant.

 

[Ballard_Alvar]

Edit: Oh, treants are huge too. By the time you get wildshape huge, you have wildshape plant.

That's true, I suppose thats worth it!!

 

[Ballard_Alvar]

So what is the best thing about Druids?

Comments? Since the original title is "The Ongoing Druid Debate" this should be ongoing. . .right? Druids realy are great. So based on power of class (the base classes) i could ask if everyone would agree that, from a power standpoint, three most powerful classes in D&D are Druid, Cleric, Wizard in that order. (I realize that question p/b belongs in a different form. but when the question of power is given, it usually comes from a missunderstanding of the rules(at least it has with me), so it remains here.

 

[mirivor]

Several posts have mentioned wildshaping into creatures with 16 or more hit dice. Isn't that illegal? I thought that 15 hit dice was the maximum allowed....

 

[Logos]

Several posts have mentioned wildshaping into creatures with 16 or more hit dice. Isn't that illegal? I thought that 15 hit dice was the maximum allowed....

No. Wild shape is based on polymorph which does have that HD level, but wild shape specifically states the form a druid takes can not have more hit dice than the character's druid level, which can be above 15.

 

[mirivor]

I was under the impression that the "not more than the Druid's hit dice" was to prevent him from morphing into 15 HD creatures before reaching 15th.... Oh well....

 

[Ballard_Alvar]

I was under the impression that the "not more than the Druid's hit dice" was to prevent him from morphing into 15 HD creatures before reaching 15th.... Oh well....

if that were the case they would have just left out that clause all togeather and lett it stand. Supernatural and spell like abilities, as a default have a caster level equal to your level in the class that grants the ability.-- I believe. . . i don't have my books here and didn't find in the SRD where it says that. I think it is in Monster Manual. but i think that would do it.

 

[Sithobi1]

Polymorph says that the HD can't exceed the caster's CL or the recipient's HD, so either way it would work, since Su abilities are indeed usually cast at CL=HD.

 

[Ballard_Alvar]

Polymorph says that the HD can't exceed the caster's CL or the recipient's HD, so either way it would work, since Su abilities are indeed usually cast at CL=HD.

It was still a vallid question, as in polymorph the quote is: "[font=&quot]The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level." But, again the exclusion in the polymorph entry overides the bold.
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[Sithobi1]

You've got a point, since it only counts Druid level, not total HD. Otherwise, though...I don't see what you're trying to say. I do believe I was agreeing with you, except that Su abilities are cast at CL=HD, not CL= class level.