Characters Running Shops? Any rules on this?

[jmucchiello]

Vaxalon and Tonguez seem to be on the same page I am. There is nothing interesting about the day-to-day running of a business. What is interesting is overall effect the business has on the area, who its enemies are and how the characters handle them. If someone moves in on your turf in a lawful society, you cannot really go kill them like in a dungeon. Yes, this can be a fun way to play the game. But actually rolling dice to find out is someone moves into the territory seems foolhardy. The DM should plot such complications.

Unless you name every supplier and create reasons why certain supplies are more or less expensive, it's just too much like real life to be interesting.

Do you remember the comic in the 1st ed DMG where two guys are at a table playing the RPG: Papers and Paycheck? There is no real-life RPG involving real life for a reason.

Joe

 

[Neo]

Heya Joe, guys

>Vaxalon and Tonguez seem to be on the same page I am. There >is nothing interesting about the day-to-day running of a >business. What is interesting is overall effect the business has >on the area, who its enemies are and how the characters >handle them. If someone moves in on your turf in a lawful >society, you cannot really go kill them like in a dungeon. Yes, >this can be a fun way to play the game. But actually rolling dice >to find out is someone moves into the territory seems foolhardy. >The DM should plot such complications.

why do you assume that because there is some detail and an expanded mechanic for it, that there is no roleplay to accompany it involved? Obviously the mechanic is to allow you to work out your income and how much of an affect your business has based on your various skills and success, and obviously roleplay can be had in and around the inn regardless of whether there is a mechanic involved or not. I just personally prefer to make it a little more in depth for my players when they want to run a business then "right make a profession roll....okay this week you made".......YAWN!. It goes without saying that if I am running a game where a PC is running a business that of course there would be story and plot involved in and around the place.....this is Role-play afterall and not Roll-play

>Unless you name every supplier and create reasons why certain >supplies are more or less expensive, it's just too much like real >life to be interesting.

Well I'm not sure how others do it, but if a PC is going to run a business then obviously he is going to be involved with other business, possibly guilds, local rival establishments. Many a story and plot can be woven around a business establishment without it becoming dull and hum drum...and City based campaigns tend to have an entirely different way of working than dungeon crawls and wilderness romps with different standards and expectations applying to each, this is not to say any is less valid than the other simply different.

>Do you remember the comic in the 1st ed DMG where two guys >are at a table playing the RPG: Papers and Paycheck? There is >no real-life RPG involving real life for a reason.

should I ever run a game like real modern day life with the same dull hum drum nature I'd have cause to worry, but as I don't it isn't a problem As I mentioned before the more expanded option I offered may not be your thing but Xaltar asked for rules to run a business not reasons not to use them, and rules I provided.

>Joe

 

[jmucchiello]

why do you assume that because there is some detail and an expanded mechanic for it, that there is no roleplay to accompany it involved?

Actually, I hate keeping track of money no matter what kind of game it is. When I get d20 modern, I'll probably work out a system for having a wealth stat in D&D and how to do the magic item stuff using wealth rolls. So to answer your question, any system that requires me to roll for profit on a daily or weekly basis is too many die rolls.

As you say, there is role-playing here. Thus, the DM can, I don't know, just decide when business is down or up. The player can react to the financial indicators or just ride it out:

DM: Over the course of the last 3 months you've noticed a steady rise in the cost of iron-made items. Your suppliers have said there is a revolt in the dwarven kingdom raising the price of raw iron.

Player can have his supplier get him some more info or he can just accept the lost profits (or he can go to the dwarven lands and check into it himself).

My point is I (and yes, you may differ) would not want any more detail about a shop than this "over the last 3 months" report.

To each his own.
Joe

 

[nameless]

As a player who once owned a business, I'd have liked some rules on profitability and such. For a little background, I got a big fat reward check (in 7th Sea, but this applies to D&D too). I was in some random tavern, blowing all my money on ale and whores, when I noticed how long it would take to blow all my money on ale and whores. So I offered up 10,000 crowns to buy the tavern on the spot (It was probably worth between 500 and 1000, but I'm no merchant). The barkeeper/owner eagerly accepted, and took off.

The next day, he came back begging for a job, not for money, but for something to do. I hired him and made him the manager of the bar. Of course, the bar also doubled as a home, because I don't like sleeping in ditches.

The point is though, I didn't plan on ever running the business functions. I just hired competent help, and kept a vaguely managerial eye on things when I wasn't away saving the world. Of course, there were random plot hooks like a village of homeless who set up camp right in front of my shop, but those were the exception not the rule. All I really needed was the barkeeper to hand me over the profits at the end of the week, minus his pay, and I'd be happy.

It's also a matter of consistency. In the real world, rich people invest their money. They can't keep re-investing in their own business because of diminishing returns, but they can use capital to buy a partnership in other businesses. I'm no economist, but I'm fairly sure that tycoons hoarding money is bad for everyone, as they need to keep money in circulation to keep everyone going.

-nameless

 

[Xaltar]

I'm no economist, but I'm fairly sure that tycoons hoarding money is bad for everyone, as they need to keep money in circulation to keep everyone going.

I have a B.S. in economics and an M.B.A. - That may be why I'm fixated on this portion of the game as well.


Thanks for the thoughts though!

 

[Arnwyn]

Tell me about it - I have a B.Comm (accounting) and am a CMA (Canadian/Commonwealth accounting designation).

The Dragon Magazine article, btw, is called "Ill Gotten Gains", and is in Dragon #268 (February 2000). Includes four different types of "investments" - a tavern or inn, a trading expedition, a "PC organization" (such as a military academy), and a mercenary unit. Includes rules for startup cost, recurring cost (monthly), and income (monthly).

 

[tabrumj]

I have to jump in with the people who think that good rules for handling runing a bussines would be cool. Of course I could be biased since I am working on securing my BS in business.

A simplified economic model and some rules for the size and profitability of the business could be very interesting, maybe an expansion of the charts in the DMG for city creation. Set up a roll for number of shops in each major category, broken down by the quality of the shop.

Hmm, I think I have a project for over christmas. I will post when I am done.

 

[Xaltar]

I will need to get that Dragon issue! Of course it falls just outside of the first 250 that are on CD.

As businesses, I have constructed a few base models in Excel to determine how to determine starting inventory and potential item turnover for a magic shop. I'm trying to work in factors that will be associated with the character's charisma, abilities, and other choices that they will be able to make in terms of pricing schema and what to buy from random items that will be present to the by NPC adventurers on a weekly basis.

I have also built a simplified model that will simulate a gambling establishment. There are still lots of bugs though, but it's a start.

As for the Stronghold builder's guidebook, I must say that there is some good information in there about what type of help you would need to run a particular type of storefront or inn, and many of the base costs for such businesses, even if they weren't part of a keep.

 

[Arnwyn]

Yep - I use the Stronghold Builders guide in conjunction with that "Ill Gotten Gains" article for when a PC decides to build an inn or tavern (a rather common investment for adventurers, especially in the Realms, it seems. How many FR products talk about adventurers running an tavern?).

 

[Dagger75]

Actually there was a drogon magazine article back in 2e days that dealt with this topic. I will try to find and tell you what issue it is in.