Characters Running Shops? Any rules on this?

[jmucchiello]

I have to jump in with the people who think that good rules for handling runing a bussines would be cool. Of course I could be biased since I am working on securing my BS in business.

See this is the part I don't get. I play RPGs in general and D&D in particular because in them I do not have the same "problems" that I do in real life. If you really want running a business to be realistic, run a real business in the real world. The mindset of a guy who carries a sword and rushes into danger is not made for paying creditors and keeping track of inventory and daily receipts. To me, it is unrealistic to have a former adventurer running a bar. Most likely when you run into such a cliche, the former adverturer has a couple thousand golds stashed somewhere that he uses to cover up his inept business practices.

 

[Vaxalon]

why do you assume that because there is some detail and an expanded mechanic for it, that there is no roleplay to accompany it involved?

I'm not saying that at all.

What I'm saying is that there really is no need for a lot of heavy rules, because the roleplay and the action surrounding the business is the important thing.

The DM should handle the business itself using simple rules like those in the SBG.

 

[Dagger75]

First of all I think its neat when a character wants to own and operate a tavern/shop whatever.

Here are some rules I made for Star Wars RPG that could fit into D&D

I used Profession and diplomacy checks.

Next I ruled the character invests so much money this month, what is the return. I had a minimum of 500gp per month. You could change this.


So here we go with our fictional tavern, The Happy Harpy owned by Grog the Half Orc.

Grog has a 10 Wis and an 8 Cha. Profession Tavernkeeper 5 Ranks Total skill 5. Diplomacy 2 ranks Total skill 0.
Grog owns the building. Invest 1000 gp for the month.

Now the modifiers. How much time did Grog spend with the tavern this month.

Time Modifier
0 Days -10

1-10 Days -5

11-20 Days 0

21- 25 Days +2

26+ +5


Diplomacy Check. I used this for how much you spent on food, repairs, other stuff that pops up during a month. This does not include wages.

Diplomacy Roll. Add time modifier to roll. These percentiles will be added to the GP return value at the End.

DC 5 or lower -25%
DC 6 to 9 - 10%
DC 10-15 -5%
DC 16-20 0%
DC 21-25 +2%
DC 26+ +5%

Profession Check. This how well you ran the business. Add time modifiers to the end

DC 5 or lower -25%
DC 6 to 9 -10%
DC 10-15 -5%
DC 16-20 0%
DC 21-25 +2%
DC 26+ +5%

Next modifier
Total % from Profession and diplomacy check.

If Negative % modifier -2% from the total
If 0 0%
If positive modifier +2%

So with my quick and dirty shop rules the best you could make is 17% on your investment per month. I made it so the group would still have to adventure. When they retire they could devote full time to there endevour. I figured the fighters would sit for a month running the bar while the wizard is scribing spells and making magic items.

For Grog, he spends a 14 days with his Tavern (-5%). This is his first month owning the tavern (0%). His diplomacy check 16 (0%)
Profession 22 (+2%). Total modifier is -3%. Grog loses about 30 gold this month and gets only 970 GP back. Next month will be harder to make some money, with the tavern (-2%). Well at least the Crypts of Zorkin the Dark are rumored to be filled with gold. Hopefully he will make money there.

These numbers can be changed to what ever you want. Also add modifiers you think apply. I made these so the group CAN make money but won't want to do it full time. This is a hobby for them in a way. They are adventures after all.

 

[Neo]

I'm not saying that at all.

What I'm saying is that there really is no need for a lot of heavy rules, because the roleplay and the action surrounding the business is the important thing.

The DM should handle the business itself using simple rules like those in the SBG.

In your opinion there is no need, and that is fine. But as i've pointed out that is not what this thread was about, Xaltar asked for rules regarding running shops etc.. and that is what I and now Dagger75 have provided.

It was never about whether or not people think there is a need for them or not, because obviously that comes down to personal preference, what works for one group might not work for another.

What a DM should or should not do is not written in stone, do what works for you and your group and nothing more, but let everyone else do the same

 

[Vaxalon]

So with my quick and dirty shop rules the best you could make is 17% on your investment per month.

Seventeen percent PER MONTH???? Annually, that works out to 562% profit!!!!

That's a HUGE profit!

Even 1% per month is a very large profit! 1% monthly works out to about 12.6% per year... that's pretty much the best that an investment in the modern world, with all of its fluctuations and productivity increases could be expected to return.

I think you need to divide your percentages by ten.

 

[Vaxalon]

In your opinion there is no need, and that is fine. But as i've pointed out that is not what this thread was about, Xaltar asked for rules regarding running shops etc.. and that is what I and now Dagger75 have provided.

It's also what I provided. I said that the rules in the SBG made good sense, and were nice and simple to implement.

What a DM should or should not do is not written in stone, do what works for you and your group and nothing more, but let everyone else do the same

I really think that any group, no matter who is playing, would do well to NOT spend fifteen minutes rolling dice and poking around in the tables to figure out that month's profit, when the only result is a slight uptick in pocket money.

I am advising our esteemed petitioner that spending a lot of time figuring out the profits from the tavern is not a good idea. The SBG can give you a good basis, and from then on the DM can focus on what is important... the important question isn't "How much did the tavern make this month?" but instead "Who is that interesting-looking person walking in the door" and "How can we get our beer supply replenished when the city is beseiged?" I don't see how ANYONE can find fiddling with dice and numbers to be more interesting than action and roleplaying... I really don't see it.

 

[Neo]

I am advising our esteemed petitioner that spending a lot of time figuring out the profits from the tavern is not a good idea. The SBG can give you a good basis, and from then on the DM can focus on what is important... the important question isn't "How much did the tavern make this month?" but instead "Who is that interesting-looking person walking in the door" and "How can we get our beer supply replenished when the city is beseiged?" I don't see how ANYONE can find fiddling with dice and numbers to be more interesting than action and roleplaying... I really don't see it.

Hi vaxalon

There really is no reason why someone cannot have a more in depth system and still have the story, its worked fine for me and i've been GM'ing 23 years. Sometimes the simple approach works but a lot of the time it depends on the players, I tend to find my lot are rather uninspired if the business they have invested thier hard earned adventuring money into is only ever raised once in a blue moon and simply for a single roll to determine thier profit. If they are busy in some campaign plot then sure, they wouldn't have much time to spend working out thier business details, but during downtime or if the plot approaches them while they are working or running thier business, then the expanded way of working out the details of your business makes things more involved and relevant to them.

I understand that you cannot see how ANYONE can be bothered to do it, but believe me when I say people can and do.

Each to thier own, the world is a tapestry of wondrous ideas and ideals..non less precious than the next

 

[Neo]

Just as an additional note

I can safely say for myself, that I would love to see a company produce a rulebook to spice up and provide a more detailed system for starting and runing everything from a marketstall to a business or guild all the way up to a kingdom.......

And such a thing would I imagine do rather well Birthright was popular afterall and was a similar sort of thing on the Domain front... and gaining land and so forth has been with AD&D, D&D in all its incarnations in some form EXCEPT 3rd edition.

If someone were to release such a tome I would buy it in a heartbeat myself.

 

[Vaxalon]

How about this then...

Use an existing mechanic.

Create a "Tavern Random Encounter" table.

Stick all the interesting things that could happen in a tavern in it.

Roll on it once a day, or once an hour if you want a really hopping place.

Personally, I don't like rolling for random encounters at the table. I would much rather roll them up ahead of time, and then spend time prepping them into planned encounters.

That will give you all kinds of action and RP opportunities, and a nice simple mechanic to cover it.

There really isn't any need for a complex mechanic to be applied to this.

 

[Vaxalon]

... and gaining land and so forth has been with AD&D, D&D in all its incarnations in some form EXCEPT 3rd edition.

If someone were to release such a tome I would buy it in a heartbeat myself.

Yeah, that would be interesting. You still can't QUITE do the "Clear the hex" campaign, yet... but I don't think complex, involved rules are the way to do it in an RPG.

The "realm rules" that were published in Dragon a while back are a good start for that kind of thing.

But running a tavern has been done well enough, IMO.