Charging into Difficult Terrain...

[RigaMortus2]

If your charge takes you into difficult terrain, you are no longer charging at that point.

So what happens? Charge takes a full round action. If I've spent a full round action to charge, and suddenly am unable to charge (while in the middle of it), does the full round action become a stanard action? move action? Or do I still consume my full round action and am just unable to proceed any further this turn?

@ the Jester: Your 1st case is what I was asking about.

 

[RigaMortus2]

This creates an untenable paradox. What happens if you provoke an AoO, charging past someone. They manage to hit only because of the -2 to AC. Then, afterwards, you convert that charge to a double move action. Do you retcon the hit into a non-hit?

Well this may be opening up an entirely new can of worms, but I thought there was discussion on this recently which pointed to the fact that you don't actually get the -2 to AC from a charge until you actually make the attack portion of the charge.

 

[Caliban]

I strongly disagree with the suggestion that you can "convert" a full round action into two separate move actions.

That's not exactly what I meant, so disagree with it all you want. A charge is (up to) double your move speed with an attack at the end. If you hit difficult terrain, you lose the attack, that's all I'm saying.

If you want to rule that you would suddenly have to stop moving because you were planning on attacking, but if you weren't plan on attacking you could keep moving through the difficult terrain, feel free. Doesn't make much sense to me though.

 

[Caliban]

So what happens?

Exactly what I said: You complete your movement (if you wish), but you lose the option to attack.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Exactly what I said: You complete your movement (if you wish), but you lose the option to attack.

Exactly what you said was:

If your charge takes you into difficult terrain, you are no longer charging at that point.

That doesn't tell me what type of action I used up, or if it is converted into a different type of action.

Charging is a a full round action that allows me to move up to twice my speed, and make 1 melee attack.

You can't charge into difficult terrain.

So when I approach difficult terrain (or I am forced into it, via a Readied Entangle spell centered around me), I can not charge, which means I can not move up to twice my speed and I can not make 1 melee attack.

Seems like a paradox since I already did SOME kind of movement. It doesn't seem like I can continue to move since the movement is based on the Charge action which is expressly forbidden with difficult terrain. So if you are suggesting I can move, I must be doing so with a Move Action?

 

[KarinsDad]

It sounds simple to me.

A charge is a full round action.

If you start to charge (i.e. moved 5 feet or more, even though charge requires 10 foot of movement) and then get hit with difficult terrain, your action is over since you can no longer charge.

It does not matter if you only moved 5 feet, you cannot charge and you cannot do anything else except free and swift actions since you already started a full round action.


This is no different than misjudging your charge, or having your spell disrupted due to an AoO. The circumstances prevented your action and you do not get to change it to some other action.

Caliban is wrong on this point from a literal rules interpretation.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Caliban has the right idea. The exact mechanics of it are up to the DM, but ruling that you just stop at the edge of the difficult terrain because you tried to charge (when you could have double-moved the same distance) would be silly, IMO.

It's like when you declare a full attack, but hit and kill your opponent with your first attack. The rules say you can decide at that point that you were actually just making a standard attack, and take a move action instead of finish your full attack action. You don't just lose the rest of your turn because you called your intended action by the wrong name.

 

[KarinsDad]

Caliban has the right idea. The exact mechanics of it are up to the DM, but ruling that you just stop at the edge of the difficult terrain because you tried to charge (when you could have double-moved the same distance) would be silly.

So, would you allow someone who moved less than a speed distance away to change his mind and then cast a spell instead?

When do you allow a disrupted full round action to be changed into a move and a move action, two moves, or a move and standard action?

Do you allow a caster who starts to cast a Summon Monster spell and immediately has it disrupted via an Attack of Opportunity to take a move action because his full round spell action was disrupted? If not, why would you do it for a Charge?

It's like when you declare a full attack, but hit and kill your opponent with your first attack. The rules say you can decide at that point that you were actually just making a standard attack, and take a move action instead of finish your full attack action. You don't just lose the rest of your turn because you called your intended action by the wrong name.

This is dissimilar since the Full Attack Full Round action gives you this option. The Charge full round action does not give you this option.

Sure, a given DM can allow this. But, it is not a core rule.

 

[RigaMortus2]

It sounds simple to me.

A charge is a full round action.

If you start to charge (i.e. moved 5 feet or more, even though charge requires 10 foot of movement) and then get hit with difficult terrain, your action is over since you can no longer charge.

It does not matter if you only moved 5 feet, you cannot charge and you cannot do anything else except free and swift actions since you already started a full round action.


This is no different than misjudging your charge, or having your spell disrupted due to an AoO. The circumstances prevented your action and you do not get to change it to some other action.

Caliban is wrong on this point from a literal rules interpretation.

Ok, so in the example (D = difficult terrain, E= enemy, M = Me and X = normal terrain):

DDDDDD
DDDEDD
DDDDDD
XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXXMXX

If I charged, would I end up here:

DDDDDD
DDDEDD
DDDDDD
XXXMXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX

(Me being just on the border of the difficult terrain, stopping right before I enter it)

Or here:

DDDDDD
DDDEDD
DDDMDD
XXXXXX
XXXXXX
XXXXXX

(Me entering INTO the difficult terrain, and this is preventing me from going any further).



I now understand that in the case of Entangle being cast around me as I am charging, I would be IN the difficult terrain and be forced to stop (thus halting/disrupting my action for that round).

 

[KarinsDad]

If I charged, would I end up here:

...

Or here:

The former. You cannot charge into difficult terrain.