Charging into Difficult Terrain...

[MarkB]

I'm away from my PHB2, but isn't it only creatures that the knight threatens at the start of their turn who are considered to be in difficult terrain?

-Hyp.

That is correct.

Also, I'm not certain from reading the SRD description on difficult terrain whether a 5-foot buffer of difficult terrain would actually stop a charge. It says that moving through difficult terrain costs extra movement, but does stepping into it count as moving through it? If not, the charging character could end his movement within the first square of difficult terrain, within attacking distance of his target, and still be considered to be charging.

 

[frankthedm]

The FAQ clarafies that if you can sucessfully Jump over an obstacle, it won't break your charge.

I'd consider that more of a claim than a clairfication... But I use that as well.

Charge
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. However, it carries tight restrictions on how you can move.

Movement During a Charge
You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent.

You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.)

If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent.

You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.

If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.

Attacking on a Charge
After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll and take a -2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.

A charging character gets a +2 bonus on the Strength check made to bull rush an opponent.

Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.

Lances and Charge Attacks
A lance deals double damage if employed by a mounted character in a charge.

Weapons Readied against a Charge
Spears, tridents, and certain other piercing weapons deal double damage when readied (set) and used against a charging character.

Measuring Distance
Diagonals
When measuring distance, the first diagonal counts as 1 square, the second counts as 2 squares, the third counts as 1, the fourth as 2, and so on.

You can’t move diagonally past a corner (even by taking a 5-foot step). You can move diagonally past a creature, even an opponent.

You can also move diagonally past other impassable obstacles, such as pits.

Closest Creature
When it’s important to determine the closest square or creature to a location, if two squares or creatures are equally close, randomly determine which one counts as closest by rolling a die.

 

[MarkB]

Closest Creature
When it’s important to determine the closest square or creature to a location, if two squares or creatures are equally close, randomly determine which one counts as closest by rolling a die.

I've seen this rule before, and whilst it's useful for creatures (i.e. Bob is ten feet away to your left, and Joe is ten feet away to your right), I can't think of any situation in which two squares can be considered equally close on a charge.

 

[frankthedm]

I've seen this rule before, and whilst it's useful for creatures (i.e. Bob is ten feet away to your left, and Joe is ten feet away to your right), I can't think of any situation in which two squares can be considered equally close on a charge.

Because the first diagonal square counts as 1 square of movement, and distance is measured by counting squares, virtualy every straight line charge falls underneath that rule of random determination.

Here is a visual aid

http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/9122/chargeitoj5.gif

 

[Vegepygmy]

If you take the full round action, Charge, and halfway through the action you are prohibited from Charging, you can't then say "Oh, I wasn't really charging, I was making two Move actions."

Sez you. I sez you can.

 

[MarkB]

Because the first diagonal square counts as 1 square of movement, and distance is measured by counting squares, virtualy every straight line charge falls underneath that rule of random determination.

Hmm. With or without that rule, I'd never have considered allowing the charge which involves a diagonal move in the above example to be considered the same distance as the one involving the straight line, and would have required the character to take the former.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Hmm. With or without that rule, I'd never have considered allowing the charge which involves a diagonal move in the above example to be considered the same distance as the one involving the straight line, and would have required the character to take the former.

Remember, not only do you have to move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent; your movement must also be 'directly toward' him.

So, let's say I want to plot a course that begins in my space, and ends in the goblin's space.

[color=white]@[/color].......
.......[color=SlateGray]o[/color]

All of these paths pass through seven squares, and take up 35 feet of movement.

1
[color=green]@......[/color].
.......[color=green]o[/color]

2
[color=green]@.....[/color]..
......[color=green].o[/color]

3
[color=green]@....[/color]...
.....[color=green]..o[/color]

4
[color=green]@...[/color]....
....[color=green]...o[/color]

5
[color=green]@..[/color].....
...[color=green]....o[/color]

6
[color=green]@.[/color]......
..[color=green].....o[/color]

7
[color=green]@[/color].......
.[color=green]......o[/color]

But if you consider in Frank's example that only one of those two squares is the 'closest square' from which he can attack the opponent (despite both taking up 30 feet of movement), then you must consider one of these seven paths to be more 'directly toward' the opponent than the other six... right?

So... which one is it?

If it isn't number 1, then I cannot simultaneously move directly toward the opponent, and also to the closest square from which I can attack him.

If it is number 1, then I question how you come to that conclusion, while at the same time considering Frank's two squares to be non-equidistant...

To me, path 4 most closely models a line drawn from the centre of my square to the centre of the goblin's square, and thus best represents 'directly towards' if we are discarding the idea that a single diagonal counts as five feet of movement... which means that I cannot both follow this path, and also move directly east to the 'closest square' from which I can attack the goblin.

-Hyp.

 

[green slime]

Nah, you're all wrong.

Well actually, I agree with Caliban and Hypersmurf, but that isn't a very exciting position to take. So I solidly disagree with everyone. I refuse.

Ban charging, its broken.

Charging should be removed in 4e because it is confusing, weak and detrimental to the game.

Players should be taken out into the garden and buried with their dead character sheets. It creates a continuity of purpose: The rose garden looks great!

 

[Infiniti2000]

Charging should be removed in 4e because it is confusing, weak and detrimental to the game.

Not removed, you just mean not included, right? I mean, if it were removed, then it would have to exist in the first place.

Anyway, no matter what option a DM chooses for charging, always temper that choice with the rules on rideby attack. If you do not allow option 1 in Hyp's example, then you are effectively eliminating rideby attack.

 

[frankthedm]

If you do not allow option 1 in Hyp's example, then you are effectively eliminating rideby attack.

Wotc effectively eliminating rideby attack when they disallowed overun on a charge and made horses 10' fat.