Charm Monster/ Prot Evil/ Dominate

[Musrum]

If a character was under the effects of a:
1. Protection fom Evil
2. Dominate Person

... what would happen when a Charm Monster is cast at them?

 

[Sithobi1]

They're both suppressed for the duration of the PfE spell. When it expires, both spells would have their normal effects. However, in this case, Charm Monster's effect is largely useless because although the creature may see you as a friend, the creature is not in control of its actions and as such, Charm Monster will do nothing.

 

[Sejs]

If a character was under the effects of a:
1. Protection fom Evil
2. Dominate Person

... what would happen when a Charm Monster is cast at them?

He'd have to save vs Charm Monster as normal, or suffer the effects of being friendly toward the caster.

Dominate Person's suppressed and would supercede Charm Monster were it active - CM makes someone your friend, DP makes you do what you're told to whom you're told, friend, new friend, or not.

Prot from Evil wouldn't protect from CM as CM alters your opinion of the caster, but it does not grant the caster ongoing control over you.

 

[Murrdox]

Prot from Evil wouldn't protect from CM as CM alters your opinion of the caster, but it does not grant the caster ongoing control over you.

Not true, Protection from Evil protects from both ongoing control and effects like charm.

Second, the barrier blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature (by a magic jar attack, for example) or to exercise mental control over the creature (including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person).

What would happen is this:

Protection from Evil would suppress the effects of both Charm Monster and Dominate Person. As long as the effect of Protection from Evil remains in effect, neither of these spells will function. We will assume that the person who had Dominate Person and Charm Monster failed the saving throw vs. both spells.

When Protection from Evil wears off, if both Dominate Person and Charm Monster are still in effect, and the duration hasn't expired, then both spells take effect.

As long as the effects of Charm Monster and Dominate Person don't conflict with each other, they can both be in effect. However, in situations where they DO conflict, the effect of Dominate Person would win out, because it is a direct form of control, instead of simply a compulsion.

For example, if an evil Wizard has Dominated me to kill another wizard, and then the wizard who I am supposed to kill casts Charm on me, no amount of compulsion to be friendly towards the target will invalidate the command I've received as a result of Domination.

 

[Sejs]

Not true, Protection from Evil protects from both ongoing control and effects like charm.

I disagree. Read it a bit more closely.

"including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person."

Charm Person / Charm Monster does not grant the caster ongoing control over the subject. They change your attitude to the caster, but they do not control what you do.

 

[Murrdox]

I disagree. Read it a bit more closely.

"including enchantment (charm) effects and enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person."

Charm Person / Charm Monster does not grant the caster ongoing control over the subject. They change your attitude to the caster, but they do not control what you do.

Well, you've kind of skipped over the fact that "including enchantment (charm) effects" is explicitly mentioned. "effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject" is a description of "(compulsion)" in the sentence. You can divide it out.

a) enchantment (charm) effects

b) enchantment (compulsion) effects that grant the caster ongoing control over the subject, such as dominate person

As far as I'm aware, there are no "enchantment (charm)" effects that exist which grant the caster ongoing control... those are all compulsion effects by default. So the fact that they're both mentioned has to mean that they are, in fact, protections from two separate kinds of enchantments.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Murrdox is right, Sejs.

The second function of the protection from evil spell blocks any attempt to possess the warded creature or to exercise mental control over the creature. What, exactly, counts as mental control?

"Mental control" includes all spells of the school of Enchantment that have the Charm subschool, such as animal friendship, charm person, and charm monster. It also includes some Enchantment spells of the Compulsion subschool if those spells grant the caster ongoing control over the subject; such spells include dominate person and dominate monster. Compulsions that merely dictate the subject's action at the time the spell takes effect are not blocked. Such spells include command, hold person, geas/quest, hypnotism, insanity, Otto's irresistible dance, random action, suggestion, and zone of truth.

 

[Musrum]

OK so with a Dominate up, the target would have to make a Will save vs Charm Monster. Even if it fails, it will still attack the caster if ordered by the owner of the Dominate spell.

With Protection from Evil up, would the target still have to make a will save (and have the Charm suppressed for the duration of the PfE) or does the target have an effective spell immunity to Charm?

 

[Vegepygmy]

The target still has to make a saving throw; he is not immune to the charm spell, its effects are merely blocked for the duration of the protection from evil spell.

 

[Sejs]

Murrdox is right, Sejs.

Huh, well I'll be. That does indeed appear to be the case.

Heh, bugger that. Guess I'll be implementing a house rule at my table, then. That's far too much blocked for a low level spell.