D&D 5E Chases, what has worked and what has not?

[Paraxis]

I am preparing for my game tomorrow, they are doing a side quest and I want to include a chase scene trying out the rules on page 252 of the DMG. This will be my first time using these rules, but not the first time I have ran chase scenes in a game, the one I have enjoyed the most before was using the Savage Worlds rules but want to give the DMG ones a shot.

Some of my concerns,
Cunning actions, there is a rogue in the group and the ability to move>dash>dash or even move>dash>grapple seems like it would be a big issue. Either the quarry has the same ability and only the rogue has a chance, or the rogue is going to catch the quarry very very fast.

Ranged attacks, mostly ranged spells that impede actions or knock targets prone. With this group I have a cleric that prepares both Command and Hold Person, and a wizard that prepares Grease. Now all those spells have a 60' range and a save involved, just again worried they will end this chase before it really starts.

The one thing that comes to mind at first is to have multiple npc's running away so that even if they catch one it won't exactly end the chase scene.

The setup is the party just acquired a magic plot device item, there are already two groups they know of that are after it. A third is showing up and going to abscond with said item or try to at least. That is another issue I have to let them think any one of the npc's could have it, or let them hand it off to each other during the chase.

So any advice, and more than that tell me of the chases you have run or played in since the DMG was released and what was fun and what wasn't, please.

 

[Herr der Qual]

In previous games I have run and participated in chase scenes, they are a lot of fun, so props for that, there are a couple of simple solutions to your dilemma I can think of off the top of my head (I haven't played the DMG rules, but they do look like fun).

One option available to you is let them catch a brief glimpse of someone nearby the chasee not acting suspiciously, that gets bumped by him, if a player wants to roll a perception let them (I'll get back to this in a second), if they end the chase prematurely they can be shocked to discover that the absconder no longer carries the "magical plot device", if they think about it they should be able to figure out the whole he passed it off to the person he bumped thing. If they did a perception/motive check to figure out if there was something fishy about the contact he was simply someone who got bumped and the absconder still has the item.

Another option available to you is to simply have "backup" prepared, like the modern day getaway driver, he could have planned his route and left a couple 5 gp thugs on the route, not enough of a challenge to really bog your party down hopelessly, but a good way to give him a bit more lead, just don't overdo it with multiple sets. Good luck.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yeah, maybe the rogue gets a head start, but because there is a limit for how often you can dash in a chase, others will eventually catch up again. I find it fitting, that rogues are good at fast get aways. Its not like a rogue will be away after a single dash and it is not given that a rogue can grapple easily, because move + dash + grapple get him only as far as the chased person.
So it takes a few turns to catch up with double dash and then constitution checks kick in.
Rogues are generally only half good at grappling, because of generally lower strength.

 

[CapnZapp]

The most important question regarding chases?

Are you prepared to allow the quarry to be caught immediately?

If not, then don't use a chase scene. Not in the usual meaning of "an exciting sequence in itself" anyway. Instead, run normal combats where foes sometimes (or often) run away.

Sooner or later the die rolls will give you a proper chase scene.

Point is: any rules that will allow the party to quickly catch the fleeing npc means they often will. And any rules that means the party can't quickly catch their prey isn't a chase - it's a montage, a descriptive scene where the players will resent their restricted ability to act, so don't expect them to: instead simply describe the results.

TL;DR: You can't both have the cake and eat it too. Either have a proper chase which often ends before it begins, or just describe the chase with no turn-based action.

 

[RaashBorg]

I've found this article to be very interesting, so you might enjoy reading it.
http://angrydm.com/2013/07/how-to-build-awesome-encounters/
I haven't had a chance to try this scheme out myself, but it seems like a solid idea.

 

[Psikerlord#]

For chases I think the best way is a table you make yourself, using the DMG tables as a guide. I think ignore detailed movement rates, the thief double move completely ruins the chase mechanic, they'll always arrive first and easily catch almost all opponents... So instead I suggest treating it as a kind of flexible skill/ability challenge - decide on a starting distance (180'), then athletics checks or whatever increase or decrease the increment by a set amount (30'), and make everyone roll on the chase table sometimes. I havent seen the paizo chase deck, but it might be worth checking out. As an earlier poster suggested, be prepared for the PCs to shortcut your chase somehow and catch the guy immediately, so if you dont want him caught dont run a chase. Best of luck!

 

[CapnZapp]

I've found this article to be very interesting, so you might enjoy reading it.
http://angrydm.com/2013/07/how-to-build-awesome-encounters/
I haven't had a chance to try this scheme out myself, but it seems like a solid idea.

His ideas about decision points (as in thinking about them, ensuring your encounters have them, and ending encounters when your players are out) are sound.

However, he resorts to abstract distance. While a common technique, in the context of D&D (especially 3e or 4e) it's kind of a cheat.

Why? Because it is the combat system of D&D that sets strict limits on the fleeing assassin's chances of escape.

What I mean by that is, sure, if you run the encounter like Angry DM where assassins are "five steps ahead", then her chances of escape is however high (or low) as you the DM feel like it.

But you are now not using the rules of D&D. You are, in fact, using made-up rules that the players won't be masters of, much less know of at all. And much more importantly, you have made it impossible to translate certain character abilities. (Such as that thief of yours who move twice as fast)

And by doing so, you've just eliminated the vast majority of pitfalls that the thread starter is actually asking about.

For some groups, this is a good thing. But to actually answer the question, that is "does chases work in the context of D&D, specifically its combat/movement framework?" we need to actually use that.

---

Actually answering the post needs to be out of scope for this particular post, but let me start off the discussion by saying that any party not of the lowest levels will cover much more ground than you expect.

So, unless you want the assassin to be caught immediately and trivially, start off the encounter at a way longer distance than you think you need. And add many more obstacles and challenges for the party to overcome than you think.

And still, if you really need the assassin to escape, or even escape for a while, you need to play dirty, with hired thugs, lookalikes meant to divert the heroes. And don't forget about magic - once play hits tier II, the assassin could and should have some sort of magical assistance to make it just a little bit harder to catch her.

 

[iserith]

I am preparing for my game tomorrow, they are doing a side quest and I want to include a chase scene trying out the rules on page 252 of the DMG. This will be my first time using these rules, but not the first time I have ran chase scenes in a game, the one I have enjoyed the most before was using the Savage Worlds rules but want to give the DMG ones a shot.

Some of my concerns,
Cunning actions, there is a rogue in the group and the ability to move>dash>dash or even move>dash>grapple seems like it would be a big issue. Either the quarry has the same ability and only the rogue has a chance, or the rogue is going to catch the quarry very very fast.

Ranged attacks, mostly ranged spells that impede actions or knock targets prone. With this group I have a cleric that prepares both Command and Hold Person, and a wizard that prepares Grease. Now all those spells have a 60' range and a save involved, just again worried they will end this chase before it really starts.

The one thing that comes to mind at first is to have multiple npc's running away so that even if they catch one it won't exactly end the chase scene.

The setup is the party just acquired a magic plot device item, there are already two groups they know of that are after it. A third is showing up and going to abscond with said item or try to at least. That is another issue I have to let them think any one of the npc's could have it, or let them hand it off to each other during the chase.

So any advice, and more than that tell me of the chases you have run or played in since the DMG was released and what was fun and what wasn't, please.

I read the DMG rules for chases and don't think they're all that interesting. The complications tables are useful, but I'd do without the rest. The trick is to also do away with much of the combat rules as well, especially as it relates to speed. Then it's just like anything else: The players have a goal (to catch someone or avoid being caught). The DM then puts obstacles between the PCs and their goals and asks "What do you do?" The players describe what they want to do. The DM narrates the results of those actions, sometimes asking for an ability check to resolve uncertainty.

The rest is just a matter of pacing and description. I like a "three strike" failure condition - if the PCs fail three times during the chase, then they don't achieve their goals (or achieve their goals at a cost or with a setback). Now just decide how many complications to throw at the PCs. The more you present, the greater the chance of failure.

So it looks like this:

1. DM outlines the goal and stakes of the chase.
2. DM presents a complication and asks WDYD?
3. Players describe what they want to do.
4. DM judges their approach as successful, unsuccessful, or uncertain (assigns DC and ability check).
5. Go back to 2 and repeat until the PCs succeed or fail in their goal.

The key thing to remember here is that not every action requires a check to determine if it is successful. If a complication is particularly well-handled by, say, the rogue's cunning action, then he just succeeds at his action. Same goes for command or hold person, though some of these things might also just be forms of a Help action that bolster's someone else's attempts to do something. You'll have to adjudicate fairly in the moment as the scene unfolds.

You've already got the charts in the DMG to help with complications. You've come up with another: The Surreptitious Hand-off. What other complications spring to mind? Write those up and you're ready to run the thing!

 

[Sword of Spirit]

It looks to me like some elements of the chase rules in the DMG are missing.

For instance, it references the lead pursuer as if it matters, and then never mentions it again. I'm assuming it is intended that each character tracks their position relative to the lead pursuer (rather than the environment).

It also fails to completely explain how to determine when you have caught your quarry. I'm assuming that, again, the lead pursue has something to do with it. Probably along the lines of when the round (not turn) begins with the lead pursuer caught up to (or in front of) any of the quarry, you have caught them and should switch to normal rules (combat, negotiation, whatever).

And again, I'm assuming that tracking position relative to the lead pursuer is intended to make the chase go faster, yet without a bit more guidance on when/how to adjust your numbers it seems like it might just slow the game down since you have to change your number both on your turn and then on the lead pursuers turn. There needs to be some sort of instructions on how to do this more efficiently and without duplication of effort.

Did anyone else notice this?

 

[machineelf]

I was skeptical about how the chase would work as per the DMG rules, but I ran one the other week with my group, and it worked beautifully. Just read the rules closely and run it as is and see if it goes as well for you as it did for me.

About your concerns:

Cunning action: Monks also have good movement abilities. Sure, rogues are going to have an advantage getting away or catching the quarry, but that's just what they are good at. There are a lot of various other abilities and spells that could come into play to hold them off, though.

Spells: Yeah someone could cast hold person, but that's the beauty of it. If they choose to cast a spell, they can't dash, and therefore if the spell doesn't work, they have fallen behind in the chase.

Ranged attacks: The same thing as spells. You could stop, aim your bow, and shoot. You may hit the quarry and kill him. But you may only injure him or miss entirely, and you have fallen behind in the chase, giving him a greater chance to get away.

Remember that at the end of everybody's action for the round, the quarry gets a chance to try to slip away and hide. The more objects or crowds there are to try to hide behind, the easier it will be. The fewer, the harder it will be.

In my game, the group had captured a goblin (first part of Lost Mines of Phandelver). They bound him up with rope, but were leading him as he walked in front of them while they held onto the end of the rope. He tried to pull the fighter into a pit. The fighter had to let go of the rope to grab onto the edge of the pit, giving the goblin a chance to run, his arms still tied around his side. The group gave chase (the fighter fell behind while trying to pull himself out of the pit). They made a couple of attempts to grab the end of the rope that was trailing the goblin, but failed both times. Another fighter aimed with a bow but missed, and fell 30 feet behind in the chase. Finally a wizard hit the goblin with ray of frost, killing it. It turned out to be a very fun scene.