Cheating and D&D

[airwalkrr]

I occassionally change the numbers on the dice when I am behind the screen, but that is not cheating because the DM is god and when a god says "make it so" it is. As a player I have nudged a saving throw before when I realized if I did not save for half my character would die, but that is the only time I ever did it, and I felt really bad about doing it afterwards.

When I am running the game, I try to make it clear to point out that if players are going to cheat in my game, I would prefer they simply find another game to play. I'm not going to get mad at them or punish them in any way, I simply ask them to leave if they don't want to play fairly. I feel that it is up to the DM to determine when luck is being too hard on the players; it is not up to the players to decide when to "influence" their own fate.

Then again, I am also a DM who usually has no compunction about killing player characters. Those more empathetic with losing a character may disagree.

 

[Daijin]

Since I am only a DM, I dont cheat, and for those who say DM's cant cheat, that means: No fudging of dice rolls, encounters, etc.

I dont have to worry about the players cheating, since they all make sure none of them cheat, and they explain to new players, that cheating is an automatic ban from the group. (There are 23 current players, but I cap it to 10 a time, and usually the average is 7)

 

[Templeton580]

*

 

[tylerthehobo]

I pulled a total "Ah-HA!" with pointed finger and all at a player recently who I caught cheating. I wouldn't have cared as much as the fact that he's the party rules lawyer, so it was a nice little paradox he had going there...

 

[Crothian]

I think that this is a lot of clever rhetoric designed to prop up hypocrisy. You're just saying that you can cheat but the players can't, because as a DM "worth his salt," you know best what's good for the game.

There is no hypocrisy here and trust me anyone who knows me will tell you I just ain't that clever. The basic premise is that DM and players are not equal. Players can cheat, DMs cannot. DM's improvise and they have the ability to alter the rules as they see fit. It is a big responsibilty and I've seen many threads about DMs that don't live up to or can handle that trust and that type of power.

So,I take it from these responses you are in the camp that DMs can cheat like players. It is just a different gaming philosophy is all.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I think that this is a lot of clever rhetoric designed to prop up hypocrisy. It seems to me you're just saying that you can cheat but the players can't, because as a DM "worth his salt," you know best what's good for the game.

That said, if your players have told you in so many words, "We expect you to cheat to make sure the game is fun for us," then that's cool. Whatever works for you.

(By "around here," do you mean EN World or Columbus, Ohio?)

Ok so in games where I don't roll in the open I shouldn't fudge dice occasionally in the party favor? Is that cheating?

I stand by the idea that the DM can't cheat.

 

[Thurbane]

OK,
A while ago I played two games at a Con where two different players were clearly cheating.

In one, the character never bothered to memorize spells, he simply cast spells from his spell list until he ran out (so he cast like a sorc. when he wasn't one and had the class spell list to choose from).

In another, the game was going _really_ long (and slow) and one player called a number of die rolls differently than he actually rolled them. I didn't mind as it *was* running long and slow, but.....

What do people do in situations like this?

Just be diplomatic, but still pull them into line.

Just say "Can I see your memorized spell list please?" or "Can you reroll that, I didn't see the result, thanks."

Simply put, call them out without being agressive about it...

 

[Piratecat]

I'd argue that the DM CAN cheat. If he's fudging dice to make the game less fun, to always make the characters fail so that he can "win" as part of a power trip, I'd sure call that cheating. Of course, I'd never play with such a DM, and I hope most players would know when to vote with their feet.

But Cutter, I disagree with you. DMs and players do play by different rules. It's the DM's job to make the game fun and challenging, to keep it fast-paced and to not let it slip into boring tedium. I'm totally okay with a trusted DM occasionally doing what's needed to achieve this. For instance, let's say my mid-level character tosses a fireball into a packed mob of several hundred goblins; I really don't expect him to roll every single saving throw, or track each hit point separately.

 

[DerHauptman]

The dice represent the chaos, the randomness of life - i.e. they are the variables that simulate the environment of the game....

Therefore, I never fudge rolls.

I know it sucks to have a player die at the hands of some minor NPC but lets face it sometimes like that happens. Read about the ACE cops who die at the hands of crack heads or the most higly trained and hooah soldier who dies from a random bullet fired by the least trained enemy. I've never had a random encounter end in a TPK but if the dice will it it must be so.

All rolls, even those the players roll for me (I let the players roll to hit themselves - lol!) are rolled in a box specifically built for such purpose.

It is all white on the inside which makes the dice easier to see and tally.

No fudging - evar.

I have the players all roll 20 successive check rolls at the beginning of each night to use for those "secret" things like forgery, bluff etc.

 

[Slife]

It says in the 3.5 DMG that DMs cannot cheat. (Page 18, in the section labeled "DM Cheating and Player Perceptions)


Therefore, DMs cannot cheat. They may make really bad or unfun rulings, but that's not the same thing as cheating.