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Savage Pathfinder Check Out How Savage Pathfinder Makes A Wizard!

One question that has come up a number of times regarding the upcoming Pathfinder for Savage Worlds (currently on Kickstarter and doing phenomenally well!) conversion is how the game handles classes. The folks over at Pinnacle Entertainment Group have sent me along a preview to share with you -- this is the wizard, Savage-style!

We already knew that the approach involved Edge 'trees', and that each 'class' was made up of its own tree of Edges. But this preview shows you in detail how it all works!

Chris Warner and Mike Barbeau, two of the designers, discussed this in our podcast last week!


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You can back the campaign over on Kickstarter!

 
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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

Donald Schepis

Developer @ PEG
The effects of Arcane Bond are different in the Edge and the Arcane Background. One gives you a free re-roll on "arcane skills", the other a +1 on Spellcasting. Mistake or cumulative?
We're still in the design phase and not in editing, so everything hasn't been synced across all the places they exist. The version on the Arcane Background page is the latest.
 

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Sir Brennen

Adventurer
What I am wondering is how far off Savage Pathfinder is from regular fantasy Savage Worlds - it would be cool to play Rise but using something closer to normal SW creation and advancment, rather than as a replication of the Pathfinder system.
It’s not a replication of the system, it’s a translation of the setting. That’s still a Savage Worlds character up there, built using the regular Savage Worlds rules. It’s just got some new Edges made to give the flavor of Pathfinder.
 

Khaalis

Adventurer
It’s not a replication of the system, it’s a translation of the setting. That’s still a Savage Worlds character up there, built using the regular Savage Worlds rules. It’s just got some new Edges made to give the flavor of Pathfinder.
This.
[Edit] The only major "difference" I see is that technically the "Class Edge" is more powerful than a "standard" edge. I believe in the live-stream the devs did, they mentioned that if you 'skipped' a "Class Edge" in building a Novice character, it would be about equal to 2 edges - which after seeing the Wizard preview sounds about right.

Per @Donald Schepis on the KS Page:
"Hey Scott, you can absolutely go from Novice to Legendary without taking a Class Edge. Class Edges balance out to the cost of a traditional Edge, so it's not the objectively best option in all scenarios. That said, I'd recommend it. You can play a character without Class Edges in any other Savage Worlds game, why not try out the new toys in Savage Pathfinder?"

[/Edit]

The one thing that confuses me is that people seem to be up-in-arms about SPF having 'classes' but yet I've seen some of the same people be fine with Rifts IFs which are far more "Classes" than SPF is.
 
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Lord Mhoram

Adventurer
It’s not a replication of the system, it’s a translation of the setting. That’s still a Savage Worlds character up there, built using the regular Savage Worlds rules. It’s just got some new Edges made to give the flavor of Pathfinder.
Cool - Having not played much SW, I saw the structure and it looked to be replicating the class idea thematically - I was thinking like pulling in abilities that don't fit neatly into classes that is what I find appealing in SW; and it just be an organic whole character than coming off more "multiclass pathfinder"

I know I am going to pledge for the base book. Not sure about the rest - I may end up never playing it, so not sure that any more would be a good investment now. But I love seeing how systems are adapted to other systems. Some older GURPS stuff and Rifts SW for example.
 

Donald Schepis

Developer @ PEG
This. The only major "difference" I see is that technically the "Class Edge" is more powerful than a "standard" edge. I believe in the live-stream the devs did, they mentioned that if you 'skipped' a "Class Edge" in building a Novice character, it would be about equal to 2 edges - which after seeing the Wizard preview sounds about right.

The one thing that confuses me is that people seem to be up-in-arms about SPF having 'classes' but yet I've seen some of the same people be fine with Rifts IFs which are far more "Classes" than SPF is.
We've actually revised the classes since that live stream to fit the usual cost for Edges. The "Class Edges cost 2 Advances" thing was the first iteration of the design, which is usually not the one you end with. The spellbook and armor interference is to balance out the benefits of the arcane background. And choosing a school has an up-side and a down-side that should roughly cancel out.

The interview Chris and Mike did with Russ (which is above the preview) reflects the most recent approach to how we're handling the Class Edges.
 

Sir Brennen

Adventurer
Cool - Having not played much SW, I saw the structure and it looked to be replicating the class idea thematically - I was thinking like pulling in abilities that don't fit neatly into classes that is what I find appealing in SW; and it just be an organic whole character than coming off more "multiclass pathfinder"
That structure you're seeing is just the normal Advances in SW, with specific ones chosen for the iconic character. Read through the second column of the first page in the doc, and you'll see advice offered for things you might want to pick instead for different types of Wizard characters. Plus, even in the Arcane Background, there's options, like taking a bonded object or familiar, and whether or not to specialize in a school of magic.

It does look like there are more Class Edges selected for the character Ezren at each Tier (Seasoned, Veteran, Heroic) which I'm assuming build on the initial Class Edge. I'd be curious to see the full descriptions for the all the "tree" Edges of a Class.
 

Lord Mhoram

Adventurer
That structure you're seeing is just the normal Advances in SW, with specific ones chosen for the iconic character. Read through the second column of the first page in the doc, and you'll see advice offered for things you might want to pick instead for different types of Wizard characters. Plus, even in the Arcane Background, there's options, like taking a bonded object or familiar, and whether or not to specialize in a school of magic.

It does look like there are more Class Edges selected for the character Ezren at each Tier (Seasoned, Veteran, Heroic) which I'm assuming build on the initial Class Edge. I'd be curious to see the full descriptions for the all the "tree" Edges of a Class.
Thanks for the info. I'd toyed with SW years ago, and getting interested again.
 

Baumi

Explorer
Interesting .. not one Attribute increase, never seen anyone ignore those before. But it's actually not a bad Idea. :)

What interesst me most about it, are actually the other books. The Monster Manual (SW has a rather small bestiary included) and the Adventure Path. The Standard SW Core Book can handle Fantasy already quite well.
 

John R Davis

Explorer
Some mechanical stuff, having played lots of PF and SW:
1. The 5 minute work day for wizards will go as power points come back over the day so they can keep going.
2. The chance of Ezra hitting effectively with a ranged weapon is poor in PF; in SW he can confidently kill a goblin mook per round.
3. Starter SW PCs are very robust so the chance of him been killed by a goblin in SW is very low indeed.
4. PF doesn't have the mass of free cantrips per day so stuff like light, detect magic, read magic etc use a resource in SW.
5. A BBEG is in vast danger of being killed very quickly indeed. A full on bolt is powerful.
 

Baumi

Explorer
Yeah, the power-curve is very different in Savage Worlds. You start far more powerfull and Heroic, but you become never as powerful as high-level PF/DnD Characters.

If you are lucky and use good tactics, you can defeat even a Dragon as a Novice Adventurer, but on the other hand you can die from a lucky Mook as a Legendary Hero. So you are never safe but can try great things.
 

Sir Brennen

Adventurer
Some mechanical stuff, having played lots of PF and SW:
1. The 5 minute work day for wizards will go as power points come back over the day so they can keep going.
2. The chance of Ezra hitting effectively with a ranged weapon is poor in PF; in SW he can confidently kill a goblin mook per round.
3. Starter SW PCs are very robust so the chance of him been killed by a goblin in SW is very low indeed.
4. PF doesn't have the mass of free cantrips per day so stuff like light, detect magic, read magic etc use a resource in SW.
5. A BBEG is in vast danger of being killed very quickly indeed. A full on bolt is powerful.
Some of those things have been mentioned as being tweaked for SWPF.

For Power Points, it's interesting, even if using just the SW core rules, that if a spell caster runs out, they'll need an hour to recover 5 points. So it's more like a Short Rest in other d20 games.

There will be "cantrips" in SWPF... use an existing power in some minor way for 1 power point. Still uses a resource, but they've said many applications will be up to player creativity.

They've also mentioned, in Morrus' podcast I believe, that higher Challenge Rating monsters might have a few changes and surprises, allowing them to be usable as solo monsters.
 



dbm

Adventurer
I don't see how that could possibly work; starting SR characters are so powerful.
I’ve only read Savage Rifts, not run it yet. Aren’t the MARS packages meant to help address this? I would apply that to the Savage Pathfinder characters if someone wanted to play one in Rifts.
 

corwyn77

Explorer
I’ve only read Savage Rifts, not run it yet. Aren’t the MARS packages meant to help address this? I would apply that to the Savage Pathfinder characters if someone wanted to play one in Rifts.

yeah, I guess you're right. I haven't read all the way through but MARS does provide some very good body armour. My main issue with SWR is the same as basic Rifts - the vast gap in combat stats means the players rely on the gm providing adversaries strong enough to challenge things like Glitter Boys and Dragons, and then not targeting anyone else with them ever, because they'll be vapourized.
 

Banquo

First Post
Loving the preview; however, although I know this is a ‘draft’ to be edited, I hope someone catches that the text for the iconic advancement on the first page doesn’t match the advancement table on the second.
 

dbm

Adventurer
I am confident they will. Even if they don’t, PEGINC tend to release PDFs promptly and allow a pause for ‘crowd source review’ before committing to print.
 

Donald Schepis

Developer @ PEG
Loving the preview; however, although I know this is a ‘draft’ to be edited, I hope someone catches that the text for the iconic advancement on the first page doesn’t match the advancement table on the second.
The preview is hot off the presses, so it hasn't gone through editing yet. The design isn't even 100% final!
 


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