Check this race please
- Thread starter justinsluder
- Start date
Gerion of Mercadia
First Post
actually, it isn't 3d6+1 ... It is 3d6 + 1.5str ....
So putting an 18 str into those builds...
Clr 1
18 +2 Race +2 size(spell) = str22 on huge greatsword = 4d6+9 (avg23).
AB = +5 (size adjusted)
AC = -1 size
You can drop any standard CR 1 or 2 creature on a charge 50% of the time with no AoO because of your reach (don't know many size large creatures that aren't at least CR 3)
Most CR 3 creatures you can drop outright as well if you hit (and probably will with a roll of 15 or so).
Charging is a VERY powerful tactic for you in round 2 of a combat, and your 10ft reach means no AoO in most cases, not to mention your "charge path" is 5 squares wide as opposed to 3.
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Extrapolate 1 level and go Clr 1 BbN 1 ... this time use Cuthbert, for Str and Destruction domains.
18 +2 Race +2 size(spell) +2 Rage = Str 24 on MW huge greatsword = 4d6+10 (avg24)
AB = +9
Add Smite, throw in pwr attack just for kicks...
Your first melee Attack is near CERTAIN to fell nearly any opponent CR 4 or less.
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The Beatdown really "goes off" at 10th with Power B/DP/RM/Rage/Smite/Domain (RM was errataed so those bonuses are size now).
My Analysis:
Below 5th level in a game with 4d6 for stats - this thing is +1 LA.
ABOVE 5th level in a game with 4d6 for stats - it is +0 LA.
What starts to provoke the LA is the "Overzise weapon" part of powerful build.
Now - if you are running a higher power campaign - 5d6 stat style... it isn't as "powergamish".
Its worthy of a powergamer playtest. Run a 4d6 and let a player have it. If everybody has fun for the first 4 sessions and doesn't feel overshadowed, it's ok. If it starts to overshadow the other min/maxed characters, it needs a +1 LA
So putting an 18 str into those builds...
Clr 1
18 +2 Race +2 size(spell) = str22 on huge greatsword = 4d6+9 (avg23).
AB = +5 (size adjusted)
AC = -1 size
You can drop any standard CR 1 or 2 creature on a charge 50% of the time with no AoO because of your reach (don't know many size large creatures that aren't at least CR 3)
Most CR 3 creatures you can drop outright as well if you hit (and probably will with a roll of 15 or so).
Charging is a VERY powerful tactic for you in round 2 of a combat, and your 10ft reach means no AoO in most cases, not to mention your "charge path" is 5 squares wide as opposed to 3.
---------
Extrapolate 1 level and go Clr 1 BbN 1 ... this time use Cuthbert, for Str and Destruction domains.
18 +2 Race +2 size(spell) +2 Rage = Str 24 on MW huge greatsword = 4d6+10 (avg24)
AB = +9
Add Smite, throw in pwr attack just for kicks...
Your first melee Attack is near CERTAIN to fell nearly any opponent CR 4 or less.
------------
The Beatdown really "goes off" at 10th with Power B/DP/RM/Rage/Smite/Domain (RM was errataed so those bonuses are size now).
My Analysis:
Below 5th level in a game with 4d6 for stats - this thing is +1 LA.
ABOVE 5th level in a game with 4d6 for stats - it is +0 LA.
What starts to provoke the LA is the "Overzise weapon" part of powerful build.
Now - if you are running a higher power campaign - 5d6 stat style... it isn't as "powergamish".
Its worthy of a powergamer playtest. Run a 4d6 and let a player have it. If everybody has fun for the first 4 sessions and doesn't feel overshadowed, it's ok. If it starts to overshadow the other min/maxed characters, it needs a +1 LA
Gerion of Mercadia
First Post
@ Niffit - Doh! I got the idea of it, was reading the math line literally however when you wrote those "averages" - I was seeing a str base of 10. You are right on the relativity thing; but what I was looking at was the "totals" figure as optimized.
I like the "giant blood" factor for this race in a major way.
What scares me here is that Powerful Build + Enlarge Person = Huge Weapons wielded by first level character. VERY SCARY
Under the "Core" it would be Possible for you to get a "virtual" 4d6 build however. Specifically, a theoretical Rogue, Taking weapon proficency Greatsword and recieving the enlarge person from a potion = 3d6 + 1d6 sneak die.
IF this race is not balanced - it is only unbalanced at levels 1-4, and more so at levels 1 and 2. You really have to "max" the build however.
Summarizing the racial features:
Mountain Men
As a side note - the Natural Height/weight on this race (for random rolls) needs to be higher than that of the half orc. 6ft as a base, 4d6 inches for a height modifier. Weight of about 225 for a base; +4d4 lbs per inch of height.
This nerfs slightly the idea of said character taking a large mount not of the dire or str 20+ variety, as his bodyweight and gear is likely to exceed 300lbs (light load carrying cap of your str 18 warhorse).
With those slightly indirect drawback/consequences (giant blood and size) added in - I would say this deal is a go, and definitely balanced as a +0 LA.
I like the "giant blood" factor for this race in a major way.
What scares me here is that Powerful Build + Enlarge Person = Huge Weapons wielded by first level character. VERY SCARY
Under the "Core" it would be Possible for you to get a "virtual" 4d6 build however. Specifically, a theoretical Rogue, Taking weapon proficency Greatsword and recieving the enlarge person from a potion = 3d6 + 1d6 sneak die.
IF this race is not balanced - it is only unbalanced at levels 1-4, and more so at levels 1 and 2. You really have to "max" the build however.
Summarizing the racial features:
Mountain Men
- –2 Dexterity; also one of the following +2 Strength or +2 Constitution (Player Choice)
- Medium: As Medium creatures, half-giants have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
- Base land speed is 30 feet.
- Low-Light Vision
- Powerful Build: Their physical stature lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.
Whenever they are subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), they are treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.
They are also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. They can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, their space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. - Giant Blood: for the purposes of magic and abilites such as a ranger's favored enemy this character is considered a giant and a human.
As a side note - the Natural Height/weight on this race (for random rolls) needs to be higher than that of the half orc. 6ft as a base, 4d6 inches for a height modifier. Weight of about 225 for a base; +4d4 lbs per inch of height.
This nerfs slightly the idea of said character taking a large mount not of the dire or str 20+ variety, as his bodyweight and gear is likely to exceed 300lbs (light load carrying cap of your str 18 warhorse).
With those slightly indirect drawback/consequences (giant blood and size) added in - I would say this deal is a go, and definitely balanced as a +0 LA.
Last edited:
justinsluder
First Post
Thank you all for the constructive feedback.
Maybe some info on my world would help see how they are not much more powerful than the PHB races.
When it comes to large weapons, they must make them themselves, or kill large creatures and take their fallen foes weapons. Small and Medium are the only sizes in which weapons and armor are legally allowed to be made in the empire which my game is set. Black market weapons are available, but sell for usually double their normal price. PC's only get 1/10th market value when selling large and larger weapons and armor. Even then, they only get that if they sell to a legally sanctioned dealer who is responsible for the dismantling of items.
Obviously, corrupt dealers don't destroy them, they sell them to the black market dealers.
Also, in cities with more than 500 legal residents, civilians are not allowed to possess weapons. All travelers must check weapons at the gates which they can pick up on their way out of town.
Yes, the current regime is a dictatorship.
Thanks again everyone.
Maybe some info on my world would help see how they are not much more powerful than the PHB races.
When it comes to large weapons, they must make them themselves, or kill large creatures and take their fallen foes weapons. Small and Medium are the only sizes in which weapons and armor are legally allowed to be made in the empire which my game is set. Black market weapons are available, but sell for usually double their normal price. PC's only get 1/10th market value when selling large and larger weapons and armor. Even then, they only get that if they sell to a legally sanctioned dealer who is responsible for the dismantling of items.
Obviously, corrupt dealers don't destroy them, they sell them to the black market dealers.
Also, in cities with more than 500 legal residents, civilians are not allowed to possess weapons. All travelers must check weapons at the gates which they can pick up on their way out of town.
Yes, the current regime is a dictatorship.
Thanks again everyone.
Gerion of Mercadia
First Post
Time for some smuggling then... that's all.
Kisanji Arael
First Post
Oh, I would definitely play a telepathic half-giant in your campaign then. LA or no LA.
"Sir, how did you get a great sword inside our fair city?"
"What do you mean? This isn't a great sword, this is simply an oversized divining rod."
[SUGGESTION]
"Right, of course sir. How silly of me. I just thought for a second... my mistake."
"You were about to tell me to move on my way then."
"Of course, sir. Move along."
"Sir, how did you get a great sword inside our fair city?"
"What do you mean? This isn't a great sword, this is simply an oversized divining rod."
[SUGGESTION]
"Right, of course sir. How silly of me. I just thought for a second... my mistake."
"You were about to tell me to move on my way then."
"Of course, sir. Move along."
justinsluder
First Post
Exactly. What can I say, I've watched Star Wars about 1000 times to many. Then again, is that even possible?
