Checks, saves, ACs and telling the numbers

[Praeco]

If it's a one shot roll I will just give out the target number.

If it is something that can be tried multiple times (like trying to hit an enemy) then I prefer not to give the target number. This is especially the case if the characters can cast spells/use items that would give them modifiers to reach the target number. They shouldn't know the exact amount of resources to expend.

Of course, there are always exceptions... I might make an exception if the character has an appropriate skill or knowledge. I feel it is appropriate to give them a rough idea, i.e "The lock doesn't look too complex", or "you're pretty sure the monster's hide is too tough for your blade".

 

[Quasqueton]

I must say, I'm rather surprised (shocked even) that everyone disagrees with me on this subject.

This quote from the Rules forum prompted me to start this thread:

Anyway, my Fighter1/Cleric2 decided he wanted to kill the orcs on teh otehr side of the rope bridge. He decided he needed to get there fast because the wizard was low on health.

"Can I make it across the bridge? how are my chances."
"Not spectacular, but you can make it."
"I am going for it!"
Rolls a 16.
"That's a 6 modified. Am I across?"
"Make another check"
"4. Now What?"
"Your character slips, tries to hold on to the side but fails, and the rest of the party sees his full plated form fall down quickly"
Me rips character sheet in half since I was very unhappy about the character anyway.
"So what did I need anyway"
"Errr. You needed 12."
"I couldn't make 12. At all."
"Oh. So I gave misleading information. Well, nothing I can do about that now."

Yuck.

I have seen, and been a party to, situations like this.

If they ask "how difficult would that be?" I make an estimate based on a take 10 and tell them easy, fair, hard, impossible, or whatever.

But wouldn't the answer depend on the character's ability in the skill?

I understand the desire to not show a save DC. But I really don't see the harm in admitting the standard grunt orcs are AC 14. And I have seen many problems arise because a skill DC was kept secret.

Oh well. As I said, I'm shocked that so many want to keep a simple thing like a Climb DC or a Balance DC a secret from the players.

Quasqueton

 

[Mark]

I understand the desire to not show a save DC. But I really don't see the harm in admitting the standard grunt orcs are AC 14. And I have seen many problems arise because a skill DC was kept secret.

Oh well. As I said, I'm shocked that so many want to keep a simple thing like a Climb DC or a Balance DC a secret from the players.

I just prefer players to not be removed from the immersion of the roleplaying experience whenever there is a die roll...which, incidently, has become more prevalent with each new edition of D&D. The more quantified the rules have become (which is not a problem), the more possible it is that the focus will be more on the numbers. By keeping the numbers obscured (mostly), I find the game is more about the stories and the players are more in tune with the motivations and goals of their characters. Not everyone's way to play, but it has worked for me for a very long time.

 

[Ukyo the undead]

Be fair...

Tell the players what the characters can see. The AC, except magical bonuses( magical armor or deflection).
When a magically protected foe is attacked, I say that something is interfering with the attack, and descript it, like " a strange force is pushing your sword away from him(deflection bonus)" or "looks like there is some invisible obstacles between you and him(Shield spell)".

To make it short, I tell him the difficult based on the information the characters can see. Magical or otherwise hidden conditions can change it.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I never tell my players the numbers. If a situation could be bad for the players they'll know it through the description. A player with a -10 to balance should NOT be going across a rickety swinging bridge that is blowing in the wind, and they know it.