Child Stats

[Water Bob]

We had a situation come up in our game last night where I had to decide on the stats for a five year old little girl.

Although I like the logic of what I did, I ended up with a 5 year old with 2 HP (about right) but stats way too high:

STR 11
DEX 9
CON 9
INT 6
WIS 11
CHR 7

I'm thinking I probably need to create an adult character than then take the stats backwards for age. Maybe something like:

Age 13-15: Stats = 100%

Age 10-12: Stats = 75%

Age 7-9: Stats = 50%

Age 4-6: Stats = 25%

Age 2-3: Stats = 10%

Infant: All stats = 1.




We're talking about humans, of course.


Taking this model and applying it to one of the PCs in my game. Silaigne would look like this:

Age 13-15+

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 16
INT 13
WIS 10
CHA 13


Age 10-12

STR 13
DEX 10
CON 12
INT 9
WIS 7
CHA 9


Age 7-9

STR 9
DEX 7
CON 6
INT 6
WIS 5
CHA 6


Age 4-6

STR 4
DEX 3
CON 4
INT 3
WIS 2
CHA 1


Age 2-3

STR 1
DEX 1
CON 1
INT 1
WIS 1
CHA 1


Age 0-1

STR 1
DEX 1
CON 1
INT 1
WIS 1
CHA 1






I'm not really happy with this, either. I don't like the physicals at Age 2-3. Maybe they should be all 3's. And, I think the mentals should build faster than the physicals.

This needs some work.

Hit points might be easier...roll 1d4 as a 1st level Commoner, and the Character keeps those until around 13 or 15 when those points are raised to the character's adult 1st level HP.



Do you have any ideas? Have you seen a good system for dealing with children under the 3.5 d20 system?

Thoughts?

 

[Sekhmet]

It really isn't that bad, but you should cap it off at 3 for each stat instead of 1.
Even by end of their first year, children are roughly as smart (if not slightly more so) than your average domesticated dog, and while won't be able to deal with the weight allowances that a 3 strength provides, so to will they not be able to deal with a 1's allowances.

 

[anest1s]

I always thought the younger the smarter.

And you are so totally wrong about the CHA. They have the ability to charm weak minded ppl, and to demand attention from everyone else. (Are you sure you want to release those horrors in your world? )

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Here is my suggestion based not off mechanical adjustment, but observations:


Age 0-1
STR 1
DEX 1
CON 1
INT 3
WIS 1
CHA 15

Age 2-3
STR 1
DEX 1
CON 3
INT 4
WIS 2
CHA 15

Age 4-6

STR 4
DEX 8
CON 4
INT 5
WIS 4
CHA 13

Age 7-9
STR 6
DEX 8
CON 6
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 11


Age 10-12
STR 10
DEX 12
CON 10
INT 8
WIS 6
CHA 8

Age 13-15
STR 10
DEX 12
CON 10
INT 8
WIS 8
CHA 8

Age 16+
STR 10
DEX 10
CON 10
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 10

Charisma drops, especially in the awkward pre-teen and teen years. Dexterity jumps during the high energy child years and lowers slightly when that energy bounce age wears off. Wisdom drops slightly during the pre-teen and teen years.

 

[HoboGod]

Logical ability scores aside, why exactly do you NEED the stats of a five year old girl? Is she going to be fighting your group's Half-orc Warblade in the thunderdome? While it may be amusing to roll the initiative and attack rolls in this hypothetical winner-takes-all death match, I think you can safely roleplay out the outcomes of all potential interactions between heroic PCs and NPC children.

 

[Water Bob]

Logical ability scores aside, why exactly do you NEED the stats of a five year old girl?

She was stolen by a rival barbarian clan. The PCs invaded their cavern outpost and stole her back. During the adventure, the PCs learned that the bad guys were playing around with dangerous stuff--worshipping a demon and such. By the end of that adventure, last night, in true Hollywood style, there was an earthquake and the cavern started to collapse.

The PCs ran the gauntlet to get out, fighting unleased undead the entire way.

Each combat round, I rolled to see if debris large enough to hurt whomever was standing in the square. If the debris fell in the square, I gave the characters a REF check to avoid damage.

Well, it happened that the PCs were fighting undead at a bottleneck, and the little girl was standing about 10 feet behind them, holding a shield over her head.

I need her REF save.

That's what got us started on needing stats.

I think you can safely roleplay out the outcomes of all potential interactions between heroic PCs and NPC children.

Spoken by someone who doesn't have all the facts. I don't know how to roleplay the rocks falling on her head besides just handwaving her death or absolute survival. Should could have very well been killed in there--and knowing that, it gave the PCs a real "push" to get out of the place.

 

[Omegaxicor]

I would just rule she has 0 because Reflex is about getting out of the way, if she is a turtle hiding in it's shell, she isn't moving at all

but yea I would have just given her 3-4 in everything

 

[Ashtagon]

Reasonable child stats - Giant in the Playground Forums

Relevant thread is relevant.

A key point in making child stats is whether you want realistic children or heroic children.

 

[Water Bob]

I would just rule she has 0 because Reflex is about getting out of the way, if she is a turtle hiding in it's shell, she isn't moving at all

but yea I would have just given her 3-4 in everything

Although the stats ended up higher than I wanted them, her REF ended up at +0.

The Barbarian class in Conan starts with +2 REF at level 1. I have her a +1 REF, which worked out to REF +0 after stat mod.



THIS is really helpful.

 

[Celebrim]

Charisma and Constitution don't scale with age the way that other stats do.

Generally I've done the following

Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, Dexterity = <Age>/<Age at Maturity> * <Attribute at Maturity>

Where 'age of maturity' is presumed to be 16 for girls and 18 for boys if you want realistic children and 14 for girls and 16 for boys for slightly more heroic children.

However charisma and constitution are assumed to be:

1/2 <Attribute at Maturity> + <Age>/<Age at Maturity> * 1/2 <Attribute at Maturity>

I tend to round fractions down.

So for example, suppose a male child with an adult elite stat array who is 9 years old and mature at 18.

Str 7, Dex 7, Con 11, Int 6, Wis 5, Chr 6

Note that this is is a Small sized humanoid, so apparant Dex is actually higher than the actual Dex due to the +1 adjustment to 'to hit' and AC enjoyed by small creatures. There is no need to do an 'awkward phase' in 3e, as there will likely be a period when the character nears maturity where they transition from small to medium sized before their dexterity catches up and counteracts the loss of effective ability.

And for a precocious 7 year old girl with a elite stat array who is mature at 14 I might do something like

Str 4, Dex 6, Con 7, Int 7, Wis 7, Chr 13

My game has minimum ability scores in order to enter into a class, so the vast majority of children are 0th level commoners. I use the 3.0 rules for generating 0th level characters for children. Commoners in my game are also presumed to be able to transform experience gained as a commoner into experience for any other class once they recieve suitable training and heroic experience. Heroic children are occassionally 1st level characters presuming that they have the ability scores necessary to enter into a class. For example, the male child above could be a 1st level Hunter and the girl meets the miminum to be a 1st level Sorceress.

Keep in mind that all D&D abilities bundle several related concepts into one abstract score. For example, Intelligence is more than just IQ, but also includes general knowledge and understanding.

As for why you would need detailed child stats:

a) The child is the ward of one of the PC's. I originally developed a theory of D&D child attributes when a PC in a long running campaign became a father. In fact, there was a far more detailed theory than what I described above, including randomly generating the adult personality and alignment of the child. Not only does the attributes of a PC's ward matter, but they can be a source of pride and amusement to the player.
b) The PC's acquire the task of protecting or rescuing a child. The child's attributes determine to a large extent how difficult this job is.
c) The child is actually the villain in the story. While probably not a combat challenge beyond a 1st level party, child villains are creepy and often present moral quandries to players, especially if the child is likeable and if not innocent then at least not obviously mature enough to be responcible for their own actions. Additionally, playing the child against society often presents a moral choice of siding with society against 'the monster' or deciding to side with the child against society and then being put in the position of protecting the child.