D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Mind of tempest]

I think a setting where the only "full" casters were warlocks and sorcerers would work great.

had an idea for a book like that.

Use the extra feat for great weapon master (melee) or crossbow expert (ranged) and make good use of maneuvers - I've seen the fighter be absolutely devastating. For the melee fighter, throw in Blind Fighting (Tasha's) to ensure invisibility etc. isn't has big a hurdle.

Of course it's also because most bard players, when they take feats, don't HAVE to focus on directly combat feats and can instead take feats like inspiring leader (which is just amazing for a group)! So there may be a bit of bias in there.

if the feat were built into fighter then the fighter would be a combat monster but would still be weak in the other two pillars of play.

 

[Oofta]

Mirror, 10' poll, a half dozen kits of various types, trade goods for diplomatic things, back up weapons, anvil... I mean, you've got all that extra carrying capacity in 5e, feels a shame not to use it.

Don't forget a good supply of 10 foot poles. Can't go dungeon delving without them!

 

[Mort]

try this thought experiment. come up with a concept, a weapon and a name... but don't do race/class. Make it aa awesome combaat monkey in one way or another in concept weapon and name

take the default array, make it a 9th level fighter.
take that 9th level fighter and change just the class to bard (sword or valor) choose the least helpful feat to remove (not the most useful) then pick spells you can flavor as cool combat things.
take that 9th level bard and switch just the class to a martial weapon/heavy armor cleric... do the same with spells picking cool combat things...

now imagine bringing all 3 to an adventure with a 9th level rogue (arcane trickster) a 9th level wizard (bladesinger) and a 9th level warlock (infernal) of your 3 versions of the same concept... what one brings more to the table?

So even IF I'm right and the fighter can hold his own in the combat pillar, the bard and the cleric will also do well there AND they can rock the other two pillars too.

Since "hold their own" implies over the various adventures of a campaign - it's just simply no contest.

Edit: Ninja'd! But I did not see @Mind of tempest 's post first!

 

[HammerMan]

if the feat were built into fighter then the fighter would be a combat monster but would still be weak in the other two pillars of play.

this is the big problem... my fighter is good at fighting and nothing else. If everyone at the table makes characters to give me support but don't step on my toes (even by defualt I would say that is easy to assume base line) I am ONLY good 1/3 of the pillars... lucky for me 1/2 the game is combat...
However it is NOT hard to make a X class that is BETTER in that one and still better in the other two.

 

[HammerMan]

Don't forget a good supply of 10 foot poles. Can't go dungeon delving without them!

again... never going to play that way NEVER... If a game needs me to 'ten foot pole pole' anything more then once in teh campaign I am walking away

 

[Weiley31]

it's left open-ended whether Xena is as well.

I also think Ares just rolls loaded dice in her favor since he was hella into her. Goodness, I legit felt bad for Ares when he pretty much pulled through on his end, for the sake of Xena, and wasn't being his normal bad guy evil self for legit real, and Xena pretty much screwed him over.

 

[Weiley31]

Arnt high level Fighters able to go toe to toe with GODS?

I mean, sure they could but probably gonna need some support when squaring off Tyranny of Dragon's Tiamat, Fizban's Bahamut, and Frog god games fully powered up Orcus.

 

[Oofta]

again... never going to play that way NEVER... If a game needs me to 'ten foot pole pole' anything more then once in teh campaign I am walking away

So you're saying that my 10 foot pole vendor I have set up outside of the Tomb of Horrors?

 

[HammerMan]

I mean, sure they could but probably gonna need some support when squaring off Tyranny of Dragon's Tiamat, Fizban's Bahamut, and Frog god games fully powered up Orcus.

give a no magic item fighter level 20 and a no magic item rogue level 20 (both can't have the subclasses that give magic) and CR 15+ monster and they don't stand much of a chance.

Give a warlock level 18 and cleric level 20 no magic items and put them against the same monster and see how different that fight goes...

 

[HammerMan]

So you're saying that my 10 foot pole vendor I have set up outside of the Tomb of Horrors?

ToH is meant to challange the player not the character... I will use my phone and google all the answers... there we go, I can now know the right answers easy peasy. Gary couldn't have ever planed for modern internet