D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Jaeger]

The term sunk cost is being used incorrectly,

You're right. The term was used incorrectly. It was My fault for leaning into that.

I caused unnecessary confusion by doing so.

So forget the term "sunk cost" and instead replace with: Network Effect

And this point:

If there were a better game for the masses (not just your personal preference) there was plenty of opportunity for it to compete. That didn't happen.

Is then sufficiently addressed by my post. As are the points you just made in your recent one.

New editions from the market leader don't negate the established network effect of previous editions so long as the market leader is able to get a sufficient percentage of the player base to move on to the new hotness.

 

[FrogReaver]

and what I think is a yearning to connect with people directly has led to the best sales ever. That's all that matters.

That's actually a great point i've never considered. Younger people have grew up completely in the digital age. They probably communicate more on social media and text message than face to face (or some semblance of that). Part of what is propelling 5e may be that it's a conduit for bringing people together into more natural communication.

 

[MichaelSomething]

They probably communicate more on social media and text message than face to face (or some semblance of that).

The gobal pandemic probably accelerated that trend...

 

[Mordhau]

I Made no such claim.

I didn't mean to say you did. But you would need to be making that claim for your all your points to be relevant in response to what I was saying. So as you're not saying that, then we've established that they're not relevant. Therefore, repeating them again with even more words accomplishes nothing more than it did the first time.

At a certain point, when someone is telling you that you're misunderstanding them, it's simple rudeness to pretend that you're not. Please don't do that anymore.

In any case, you've found people who do want to argue this topic with you, so I'll leave you to argue with them.

 

[Oofta]

You're right. The term was used incorrectly. It was My fault for leaning into that.

I caused unnecessary confusion by doing so.

So forget the term "sunk cost" and instead replace with: Network Effect

And this point:



Is then sufficiently addressed by my post. As are the points you just made in your recent one.

New editions from the market leader don't negate the established network effect of previous editions so long as the market leader is able to get a sufficient percentage of the player base to move on to the new hotness.

When 5E was released, D&D was not the market leader. There are many, many reasons for 5E's sales. Some of it's networking. Some of it's the general backlash against only being connected digitally that's led to a resurgence of RPGs and board games. Some of it's Critical Role and other streams and showing what games are really like*. Except ... Mercer and company were playing Pathfinder before switching to D&D 5E because they liked the system better. So there's a chain of events. Because people enjoy a game, it becomes more popular because of word of mouth. Streaming reaches a lot more people than any individual ever could, but it's similar.

Entertainment frequently sees a growth pattern. People enjoy something, so it spreads. But at the start? You have to have a decent product. Similar to movies, depending on name recognition and general appeal people may flock to see it opening weekend but word of mouth can make or break the movie over the course of it's run.

It just seems that a lot of people really want to downplay 5E. While no game is perfect, 5E is pretty good at what it sets out to do or it would never be as successful as it is. It continues to grow because people have fun with it and tell others about it. That doesn't happen without a quality product.

*In the sense of the flow of the game for one group and that they really seem to just be sitting around having fun. Very few people are a polished in their presentation.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Thinking about fighter revisions, did I hear right that there were increased non-combat resolution activities in Strixhaven?

Are there any mechanics there that the fighter falls behind on, or are they all pretty neutral?

I'm curious about this too. From what I heard, it was less mechanical and more descriptive.

A non-mechanical resolution method wouldn't exactly favour the Fighter, but it would certainly penalise them less.

Skill checks would favour the Rogues and casters over fighters, but situations that are more about the player engagement or mechanics that don't rely on anything on your character sheet would be an even playing field.

 

[Aldarc]

When 5E was released, D&D was not the market leader.

Umm...Pathfinder effectively is and was D&D by another name. It even advertised and branded itself as a continuation of 3e D&D. It gave people a way to maintain their old networks.

 

[Oofta]

Umm...Pathfinder effectively is and was D&D by another name. It even advertised and branded itself as a continuation of 3e D&D. It gave people a way to maintain their old networks.

So? It just goes to prove that it's the core elements of the system that people enjoy, they don't play D&D because it's labeled D&D. It doesn't change anything I've said.

 

[Aldarc]

So? It just goes to prove that it's the core elements of the system that people enjoy, they don't play D&D because it's labeled D&D. It doesn't change anything I've said.

So? Its brand was directly built on the D&D brand. It relied on being identified with and as D&D by another name.

 

[Oofta]

So? Its brand was directly built on the D&D brand. It relied on being identified with and as D&D by another name.

What's your point? The core concepts work for a lot of people. That base system and style was carried over first into PF and then 5E. The majority of people currently playing 5E have never heard of PF and don't really care much about the history of D&D one way or another. They just have fun playing the game, to me that's all that matters.