D&D General Chris just said why I hate wizard/fighter dynamic

[Maxperson]

Every night when you camp, take a stone from the campsite (and toss the previous night's stone, to avoid confusion and encumbrance issues). Then, at the absolute worst, you're one day from your point of origination. Of course, when you enter a new point of interest, you can also grab the first random object you find, for quick backtracking.

A stone won't cut it. The object has to be associated WITH the area, not just be in the area. If you're walking through the Temple of Arnyssa and you pick up a pebble in the garden, it's just a pebble. If that temple has 10000 small statues that line the walls, those are associated with the site. Look at the examples. A book(not pebble) from a library. A piece of a specific tomb. A linen from a specific royal suite. If you're at some random campsite, there's not going to be objects specifically associated with that site.

 

[Oofta]

But that's with a cantrip. The wizard still has higher-level spells. Sure, that's only a handful of uses per day, but they're able to do a lot more damage with them, so that a combat that would take a fighter many rounds worth of successful attacks could very well be over in just one action taken by the wizard. And unlike a fighter, this ability extends to killing even more powerful creatures. A fighter can hack away at powerful monster over the course of several rounds, but there's a much better chance that a spellcaster can kill or very seriously injure the same creature in a single turn.


It's one of those "anything you can do, I can do better" things. A spellcaster has so many options as to how they kill things and, as it is, fighters don't--unless they have a more magical archetype. They can use their weapon, or they can use a different weapon. In Level Up, they have martial maneuvers to give more options, but in base D&D, only the Battlemaster, or someone who takes that feat that lets them have Battlemaster maneuvers, has anything like that. Although I understand why the Battlemaster isn't the basic fighter package, I wish it had been.

Well you were the one saying a wizard's cantrip kept up with fighter damage, not me.

As far as battle masters go, I don't really care for the superiority die mechanic. As far as the rest, it depends on many factors. But I'm tired of going round and round.

 

[Fanaelialae]

A stone won't cut it. The object has to be associated WITH the area, not just be in the area. If you're walking through the Temple of Arnyssa and you pick up a pebble in the garden, it's just a pebble. If that temple has 10000 small statues that line the walls, those are associated with the site. Look at the examples. A book(not pebble) from a library. A piece of a specific tomb. A linen from a specific royal suite. If you're at some random campsite, there's not going to be objects specifically associated with that site.

Convenient to leave out the chunk of marble from a lich's tomb, which is also an example associated object from the spell.

You're free to rule it that way, but the RAW makes no such claims. If I were DMing, you could absolutely use a stone from a clearing as an associated object. Stones are typically a part of clearings. I probably would require a book (or similar object) from a library, but that's because (unlike clearings) random rocks aren't typically part of libraries. On the other hand, a rock that was on display in the library would absolutely be fair game.

 

[Maxperson]

Convenient to leave out the chunk of marble from a lich's tomb, which is also an example associated object from the spell.

Er, go back and look again.

It wasn't a pebble from the floor. It was a piece of the actual tomb.

You're free to rule it that way, but the RAW makes no such claims.

It shows it through example.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Er, go back and look again.

It wasn't a pebble from the floor. It was a piece of the actual tomb.

It shows it through example.

And a stone from a clearing is a part of that clearing.

 

[Maxperson]

And a stone from a clearing is a part of that clearing.

Happening to be there doesn't = associated with, though. If I throw a rock from the forest into that clearing and you pick it up 2 seconds later, you're saying that the rock is associated with the clearing and not the forest.

Associated with means a part of a specific whole. A branch from a tree is associated with the tree it came from. A piece of the tomb is part of the whole tomb. A book in a library is associated with that whole library. There isn't anything that is specifically associated with a clearing other than a lack of trees.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Happening to be there doesn't = associated with, though. If I throw a rock from the forest into that clearing and you pick it up 2 seconds later, you're saying that the rock is associated with the clearing and not the forest.

Associated with means a part of a specific whole. A branch from a tree is associated with the tree it came from. A piece of the tomb is part of the whole tomb. A book in a library is associated with that whole library. There isn't anything that is specifically associated with a clearing other than a lack of trees.

So in your campaign I'd break off a piece of a branch from a tree next to the clearing. Now I can teleport next to that tree. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

 

[tetrasodium]

So in your campaign I'd break off a piece of a branch from a tree next to the clearing. Now I can teleport next to that tree. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Given youyr posts on the subject It sounds like you are habitually planning to grab random items you think are going to be associated with various places almost on a predictable schedule that a foe could plan for & plant to ensure that you obediently teleport you & your allies into a specially prepared adamantine lined cell that blocks teleportation out. Luckily my NPCs are more likely to be ready with a set of contracts that magically binds you & your best buds to their service as a condition to not being in a place where you would be doused in boiling oil through the next time boiling oil is poured through the ceiling. Such a shame that the time it takes to actually read said four hundred & seventy two page contracts would be several more cycles of boiling oil than your hitpoints can take.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Given youyr posts on the subject It sounds like you are habitually planning to grab random items you think are going to be associated with various places almost on a predictable schedule that a foe could plan for & plant to ensure that you obediently teleport you & your allies into a specially prepared adamantine lined cell that blocks teleportation out. Luckily my NPCs are more likely to be ready with a set of contracts that magically binds you & your best buds to their service as a condition to not being in a place where you would be doused in boiling oil through the next time boiling oil is poured through the ceiling. Such a shame that the time it takes to actually read said four hundred & seventy two page contracts would be several more cycles of boiling oil than your hitpoints can take.

So your NPCs would somehow replace all the trees in every clearing that the party could come across with trees that have been grown in a death trap? Impressive.

Although, the way I would handle it if I were DM would be that grabbing an object that isn't associated with the intended site simply bumps your down to the next appropriate level of familiarity. So you'd teleport to your intended target, but with a 25% chance of being off target.

 

[Maxperson]

So in your campaign I'd break off a piece of a branch from a tree next to the clearing. Now I can teleport next to that tree. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

So your NPCs would somehow replace all the trees in every clearing that the party could come across with trees that have been grown in a death trap? Impressive.

I'm not sure who you are talking to, but I had a brief mental picture of your PC snapping the finger off of one of a half dozen treants.