Circle Kick Confusion!

[Sparrowhawk]

A lot has been said about the rules gaffes in Sword and Fist. I myself am pretty sick of reading about them. But here I am, bringing up a rules gaffe from S&F. however, I think even a seasoned message board reader will find this interesting, because I've never seen this particular rule brought up in any of the "SOWRD AND FIST SI BROKEN1!!!!1!!!" threads.

The rule: the Circle Kick feat. I was looking at this while thinking about making an unarmed specialist psychic warrior just for S&G, and was struck by how unclear it was. The exact text:

Circle Kick [General]
You kick multiple multiple opponents with the same attack action.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +3, Improved Unarmed Strike, Dex 15+.
Benefit: A successful unarmed attack roll allows you to make a second attack roll against a different opponent that is within the area that you threaten. This feat requires the full attack action.

This leaves a lot of room for interpretation. How many times can you use this feat in a round? Does an attack gained by use of Circle Kick trigger another Circle Kick attack? Who knows?! It isn't clarified in the official S&F errata. Has there been a sage advice ruling or something?

 

[Crothian]

Okay, here's how it works. Declare you ar eusing the feat and take one attack as a full round action. If that attack hits, you get
a second attack at another opponent. That's it. No third attack if the second hits. THis was clarified by the sage ort in the FAQ maybe.

 

[Douane]

Like Crothian said.

This is from the official S&F FAQ:

Q.:How does the Circle Kick feat work for a monk or other character with multiple attacks? Or for a monk who uses a flurry of blows? Does each successful unarmed attack roll allow a second attack against a different opponent?

A.: A character using Circle Kick makes one attack. If this single attack hits, the character makes a second attack at the same attack bonus as the first.


Folkert

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

So, isn't this feat pretty much worthless for anyone who gets more than one attack?

Hmmm..well, I guess it would let you move and then take two attacks.

 

[Crothian]

So, isn't this feat pretty much worthless for anyone who gets more than one attack?

Hmmm..well, I guess it would let you move and then take two attacks.

Yes, it's very much on the useless side. No, you can't move and do this. Using this feat is a full round action. WEll, you can do the five foot move and then do this.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Well, actually given how the feat is originally written, and how other feats within the PHB are written (namely rapid shot), my point of view is that this feat (and also dirty fighting) were originally intended to apply to each and every attack made during a full-round action.

Otherwise both feats are complete cack.

At some point, someone complained, and the feats were changed.

My point of view is that the feats are NOT that powerful that they need to be nerfed in the way they were.

I'd suggest that if you ARE going to make a whirlwind kick a full-round action, then you should allow any successful attack generated from use of the feat to allow a further attack. If you are going to go with the (in my opinion) more sensible house rule that both this feat and dirty fighting are allowed as extras, over and above standard attacks, then you probably only want to allow attacks to be generated from normal attacks.

 

[Crothian]

Well, actually given how the feat is originally written, and how other feats within the PHB are written (namely rapid shot), my point of view is that this feat (and also dirty fighting) were originally intended to apply to each and every attack made during a full-round action.

Otherwise both feats are complete cack.

At some point, someone complained, and the feats were changed.

Actually, no one complained. People asked how does this work because of the bad wording and Wizards told us these version. Now, House ruling these to make them useful is just fine, but this is how they were orginally intended.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Yes, it's very much on the useless side. No, you can't move and do this. Using this feat is a full round action. WEll, you can do the five foot move and then do this.

D'oh, you're right. Silly me.

Hmm..

I could see it being a useful feat if and only if I was playing a monk with a BAB of less than +6 in a one-shot adventure. And even then, it's not that useful.