D&D General Circle Magic Concerns In "Heroes Of Faerun"

[FrogReaver]

If you think you could be wrong... then why not just use Circle Magic if you like the idea and then make your judgement after you use it? The only way you'll find out is by trying.

Now if you don't actually care about circle magic, then you don't need to bother with it or concern yourself on how it plays. Every single DM has parts of the game they just aren't interested in, and they make the choice not to worry about it or put it into action. Like I don't care about Encumbrance... so I don't care what the rules are or worry about whether they work, or any of that stuff. I just ignore it. Circle Magic might very well be the same thing for you.

There’s many things I know without ever having to try.

 

[Distracted DM]

Okay that helps a lot then.

Yeah, the section doesn't have the best layout so it can be a little confusing on that front.

Regarding a wizard contributing to a cleric spell or vice-versa, I see a few ways to handle it:

• My preferred way: it needs to be the same magic type- so arcane can help arcane. I've grouped them previously as primal (bard druid ranger), divine (cleric paladin), arcane (wizard sorcerer warlock).
• Different magicks CAN contribute, but not as efficiently: say a divine caster contributes to an arcane spell, they need to expend a higher spell slot... the number could be arbitrary, like +2, (a cleric has to expend a 5th level slot to help a 3rd level wizard spell), or you could make it double (cleric has to expend an 8th level slot to help a 4th level wizard spell, or a 2nd to help a 1st) which makes it quite unappealing but could still be useful in some fashion, or ... some other way.

 

[Distracted DM]

It was pointed out to me that there's another Circle Casting system, from the Ed Greenwood Thay, Land of the Red Wizards book on DMsGuild. I do wonder how it compares

 

[jasper]

Any spell that has a casting time of an action or 1 minute or longer... holy long sentence batman. Why not any spell which is not a bonus action.

 

[Ferrousbones]

Any spell that has a casting time of an action or 1 minute or longer... holy long sentence batman. Why not any spell which is not a bonus action.

Alternately, it could be "Any spell not cast via Bonus Action or Reaction...", which saves about 15-20 characters.

 

[DEFCON 1]

There’s many things I know without ever having to try.

Good for you. But my comment wasn't made for you. I was addressing the original poster.

 

[FrogReaver]

Good for you. But my comment wasn't made for you. I was addressing the original poster.

The point applies to everyone. Not just me.

 

[bloodtide]

I think the idea is really cool but I can see this causing some issues here. Has anyone heard the designers talk about this? What are everyone's thoughts about this?

I'm sure the WotC people don't know or care. It is just a silly game rule.

But casting a spell a mile a away? Okay, so this does not seem to be all that powerful an effect. Useful, sure, but not game breaking.

It was pointed out to me that there's another Circle Casting system, from the Ed Greenwood Thay, Land of the Red Wizards book on DMsGuild. I do wonder how it compares

WotC is a watered down safe version

Ed's Cricle magic is evil and destroyer the land and rips the weave so non evil characters can't use it and it is "beyond the use by PCs haha".

It is more "each caster adds to a spell point poll that can do effects, but only "add 50% to spell range". But for 100 points you can make a spell permanent.

Oh, but most of all Szass Tam controls all circle magic so you must get permission from him to use any circle magic.

 

[Distracted DM]

Agreed on the fast bit. Same goes for a cleric contributing to a wizard spell

It does say that it has to be a slot equal to or greater than the spell being cast.

Okay that helps a lot then.

So ... it might be a formatting screwup on my end. I was wrong- I was reading the requirement of the Supplant augment. Only half of the augments require any spell slot expenditure, and only one of the requires the slot be of equal level to the spell being cast.

 

[Marandahir]

Is it me or is it extremely fast? You in theory could circle cast in a single round if everyone was ready. Not sure I like that. It feels casting spells this way should take a bit more time.

Also apparently anyone with spell casting can contribute so clerics, warlocks and Eldritch knights can all contribute to the same circle casting? Also feels icky.

Lastly I’ve heard it suggested that when a slot needs to be expended it can be any level. So you could improve a meteor swarm with a level 1 slot. Can this be true? I really don’t like this.

I haven’t seen this yet, if this isn’t the cast please let me know.

Agreed on the fast bit. Same goes for a cleric contributing to a wizard spell

It does say that it has to be a slot equal to or greater than the spell being cast.

Yeah, the section doesn't have the best layout so it can be a little confusing on that front.

Regarding a wizard contributing to a cleric spell or vice-versa, I see a few ways to handle it:

• My preferred way: it needs to be the same magic type- so arcane can help arcane. I've grouped them previously as primal (bard druid ranger), divine (cleric paladin), arcane (wizard sorcerer warlock).
• Different magicks CAN contribute, but not as efficiently: say a divine caster contributes to an arcane spell, they need to expend a higher spell slot... the number could be arbitrary, like +2, (a cleric has to expend a 5th level slot to help a 3rd level wizard spell), or you could make it double (cleric has to expend an 8th level slot to help a 4th level wizard spell, or a 2nd to help a 1st) which makes it quite unappealing but could still be useful in some fashion, or ... some other way.

I think at my game I'd make a similar sort of ruling, but I'm glad that's not in here as a default. This feels like something that should be left up to individual DMs/Tables to agree on how magic power sources work.

Some settings and games magic source separation of powers is a key part of their world, others, they're just different routes to accessing the same Weave.

In The Forgotten Realms, the latter holds true (down to this same chapter discussing as much regarding how the Weave works and when it DOESN'T like in some parts of the Anauroch), hence why in a book about the FR, it makes sense to not worry about Clerics supporting Wizards in a mixed coven.
I'd also note that at my table, while dividing magic covens between Clerics/Druids/Psions/Wizards, I'd let Bards join up with any or all Circles given their ability to dabble in each and eventually have access to all 3 types of magic (and I have a homerule that at the same level 10 they can instead start choosing from the Psion list as well). And despite being the Arcane Half-caster class, I'd also let Artificers do so too -- with the idea that they're smart/elbow-greasy enough to "hack" the system and let their inventive magics work with whatever coven they want to join.

Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster use the Wizard spell list, so I'd let them join Arcane Covens.

Paladins, Rangers, Sorcerers, and Warlocks I'd treat differently each depending on their subclass.

Oath of the Ancients Paladins might be able to support Druids, and Oath of the Noble Genies or Oath of the Watchers might be able to support Wizards, while most other Paladins might only be able to join Clerical covens.

Most Rangers would work with Druid covens, but the Monster Slayers could easily join an otherwise Cleric & Paladin coven (the idea being of a Van Helsing-esque 'slayer).

Sorcerers and Warlocks' covens largely would depend on their spell sources. Most would be Arcane, but Divine Sorcery and Celestial Pacts would fit with Cleric/Paladin covens, Archfey Patron or Storm Sorcery might make a case for a Druid coven, etc.

Ultimately at my table, the Circle Magic coven restrictions will be less about 4E style power sources and more about how narratively connective tissue (Arcana Domain, Fey Wanderer, Archfey, College of Glamour, Path of Wild Magic; Twilight Domain, College of the Moon and Circle of the Moon, etc). Build a Party around a magical narrative core, and I'd allow it.