D&D 5E (+) Circle of Spores, a Better Execution

[doctorbadwolf]

(+thread so don’t crap on anyones ideas)

So, the Circle of Spores Druid has some excellent concepts, and most of them are executed in just about the most unappealing way they could be, to me.

So what do?

@Ancalagon you were interested, so let’s have some fun.

Okay so, by levels:

Level 2: Halo of Spores. Either increase the damage to be comparable to an attack of opportunity with a Shillelagh, or ditch the save.

Symbiotic Entity: You can create a familiar that is a little mushroom guy or an ooze or an undead critter, when you use Symbiotic Entity you can choose you or your symbiotic ally to gain the benefits. While under the effect, the familiar can attack with its action. Also you can spend a spell slot to increase THP similar to the scaling of false life.

Level 6: replace the zombie with the ability to have you and your fungal ally benefit from symbiotic entity at the same time.

Level 10: functional but boring and fiddly. Bad combination. Just increase the halo radius.

Level 14: I guess this is fine?


Any counter proposals? Tweaks? Concerns?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Oh!

Also just make Shillelagh a class feature that scales?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I'd suggest taking inspiration from the discarded Witherbloom mage UA.

Fungal Infestation: I personally love the zombie, but I'd prefer something like ''instill ongoing poison/acid/necro damage on an enemy, if it dies during that time, it explodes and damage its allies within 15 ft''. At 14th, the damage allies could make a save or also be affecting by the parasitic time bomb!

Halo of spore: just make it automatic, the damage is minimal anyway. No action, no save, when an enemy starts its turn next to you.

Spreading spores: let's you move you Halo to any creature currently affected by your Fungal infestation or poisoned.

Fungal body is moved to 10th also.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'd suggest taking inspiration from the discarded Witherbloom mage UA.

Fungal Infestation: I personally love the zombie, but I'd prefer something like ''instill ongoing poison/acid/necro damage on an enemy, if it dies during that time, it explodes and damage its allies within 15 ft''. At 14th, the damage allies could make a save or also be affecting by the parasitic time bomb!

Halo of spore: just make it automatic, the damage is minimal anyway. No action, no save, when an enemy starts its turn next to you.

Spreading spores: let's you move you Halo to any creature currently affected by your Fungal infestation or poisoned.

Fungal body is moved to 10th also.

I don’t hate it lol

I really like being able to explode your zombie. Very Diablo 2 Necromancer.

 

[Dausuul]

I feel like the Circle of Spores is trying to go in several different directions - is it trying to be a melee warrior? a zombie master? an AoE blaster? - and it needs a bit more focus.

So, with that in mind... I would replace its features with something like the following. (Don't get too hung up on the damage numbers or ability ranges, they're just off the cuff. They'd need to be playtested and adjusted for balance.)

Halo of Spores (2nd level). You are surrounded by deadly spores that invade the wounds of your foes. When a hostile creature within 30 feet of you takes damage, if its remaining hit points are less than or equal to your proficiency bonus, it dies.

Symbiotic Entity (2nd level). As a bonus action, you can expend a use of your Wild Shape to have your spores attack any number of creatures you choose within 30 feet of you. Each must make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. If it fails, it becomes infested for 1 minute.

As a bonus action on each of your subsequent turns, you can deal 1d6 necrotic damage to each creature you can see that you have infested. This damage increases to 2d6 at level 5, 3d6 at level 11, and 4d6 at level 17.

Fungal Infestation (6th level). As a reaction, when a beast or humanoid you have infested is reduced to 0 hit points, you can cause it to die and animate as a spore zombie. The spore zombie obeys your telepathic commands and acts immediately after your initiative. It dies after 1 hour, or whenever the number of spore zombies you control exceeds your proficiency bonus.

[Stats for spore zombie: Basically, it's got AC 8, 1 hit point, speed 20 feet. Its only action is Spore Burst, which also triggers when it's reduced to 0 hit points or dies; each creature within 5 feet of it must make a Con save. Those that fail become infested by you for 1 minute.]

Spreading Spores (10th level). Spore zombies you create have their speed increased to 40 feet, and the range of their Spore Burst ability increases to 15 feet.

Fungal Body (14th level). As an action, you can disperse your being into spores. Your body and carried equipment vanish, but you retain control over your spore zombies and can see through their eyes. Whenever one of their Spore Bursts is triggered, you can have your body and equipment re-form within 5 feet of that spore zombie. If at any point you have no spore zombies under your control, your body re-forms in its original location.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I feel like the Circle of Spores is trying to go in several different directions - is it trying to be a melee warrior? a zombie master? an AoE blaster? - and it needs a bit more focus.

So, with that in mind... I would replace its features with something like the following. (Don't get too hung up on the damage numbers or ability ranges, they're just off the cuff. They'd need to be playtested and adjusted for balance.)

Halo of Spores (2nd level). You are surrounded by deadly spores that invade the wounds of your foes. When a hostile creature within 30 feet of you takes damage, if its remaining hit points are less than or equal to your proficiency bonus, it dies.

Symbiotic Entity (2nd level). As a bonus action, you can expend a use of your Wild Shape to have your spores attack any number of creatures you choose within 30 feet of you. Each must make a Constitution saving throw against your spell save DC. If it fails, it becomes infested for 1 minute.

As a bonus action on each of your subsequent turns, you can deal 1d6 necrotic damage to each creature you can see that you have infested. This damage increases to 2d6 at level 5, 3d6 at level 11, and 4d6 at level 17.

Fungal Infestation (6th level). As a reaction, when a beast or humanoid you have infested is reduced to 0 hit points, you can cause it to die and animate as a spore zombie. The spore zombie obeys your telepathic commands and acts immediately after your initiative. It dies after 1 hour, or whenever the number of spore zombies you control exceeds your proficiency bonus.

[Stats for spore zombie: Basically, it's got AC 8, 1 hit point, speed 20 feet. Its only action is Spore Burst, which also triggers when it's reduced to 0 hit points or dies; each creature within 5 feet of it must make a Con save. Those that fail become infested by you for 1 minute.]

Spreading Spores (10th level). Spore zombies you create have their speed increased to 40 feet, and the range of their Spore Burst ability increases to 15 feet.

Fungal Body (14th level). As an action, you can disperse your being into spores. Your body and carried equipment vanish, but you retain control over your spore zombies and can see through their eyes. Whenever one of their Spore Bursts is triggered, you can have your body and equipment re-form within 5 feet of that spore zombie. If at any point you have no spore zombies under your control, your body re-forms in its original location.

I really like that, but I do think it does a different thing from the original subclass, and I think that what the subclass does is conceptually good.

 

[DeviousQuail]

Halo of Spores (2): As a reaction you cause your spores to poison a target within 10 feet of you (con save to negate). No damage but infinite chance to poison opponents can be really handy for a subclass designed to be in melee. Don't have to fear those grapples as much.

Symbiotic Entity (2): Keep the THP, have it grant wis to attack/damage with melee weapons while active, make it a bonus action instead of an action. This subclass has a clear melee focus but I'm not sure it works without shillelagh or being able to use wis in place of str/dex. Even with shillelagh you are using your whole first turn to enter fighting mode. They already figured out to make it a bonus action for moon druids and bladesingers.

Fungal Infestation (6): Either make it explode for necrotic damage or a once per day free casting of animate dead using your spores. A 1 HP zombie a few times a day seems pretty weak. Best used to walk down a hallway you don't trust.

Spreading Spores (10): As a bonus action you can command your spores to deal 1d6 necrotic damage to every target of your choice within 10 feet while Symbiotic Entity is active. The 1d6 necrotic comes back at a time when most classes are getting some kind of damage boost. It can be nice for forcing concentration saves along with your normal attack.

Fungal Body (14): No changes. It's 14th level so it won't get a lot of play and I don't have any issues with what it gives.

Overall, this version of the spore druid leans into a melee style of play.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

Fungal infestation is what needs work. It's the ability that, thematically suggests all sorts of creative play, but totally kills it through an overly narrow and mechanically rigid implementation, that just makes it into a mildly interesting combat tactic of limited use.

When I saw that there was a fungal necromancy druid, I was envisioning swinging through the jungle treetops on the back of a fungus powered giant gorilla corpse, my loyal undead pet ferret Lazarus ever by my side. Spore themed buffs are cool and all, but it's not what makes the subclass thematically interesting to me.

To me what would make this subclass awesome is if I could use the power of fungus to both A) have one semi-permanent undead pet and B) also temporarily reanimate beasts (including larger beasts) and make some limited use of their unique natures. I don't really care if these critters are useful in combat, druids can always summon creatures to help them in combat. I'm more interested in being able to make general utility use out of corpses of exploration and roleplay.

5e Necromancy in general would benefit from having a simple template to create the undead version of a creature, and the idea that zombified beasts come back using standard humanoid zombie stats is where the lack of such a thing really gets felt.

 

[beancounter]

Circle of spores is a great concept with underwhelming abilities.

My revisions:

Halo of spores: This should scale in a way similar to many other spells 1d4 to start, then 2d4 at 5th level, 3d4 at 11th level and 4d4 at 17th. - and come to think of it, the die should increase too. so d6 at 5th, d8 at 11 and d10 at 17th.

Symbiotic Entity: The melee attack damage should be increased by the druids proficiency bonus + the wisdom modifier.

Fungal infestation: The animated corps needs more than 1 hp. Maybe 1 hp per druid level plus proficiency bonus. This is a 6th level ability...

Spreading spores: It should be able to function independently of symbiotic entity.

 

[Ancalagon]

I think to me the first problem that has to be fixed is the reaction problem - both Halo of Spores and Fungal Infestation require a reaction... but ideally you wan to do halo of spores every turn (other wise, why bother with the small damage at all?), which could stop Fungal Infestation from being available (due to the lack of a reaction). As of now, it "doesn't quite work".

In my game, we removed the need for a save for the Halo of Spore damage - slows down the game. Also,

2: The creation of a zombie via Fungal infestation takes a reaction. However, if the damage that kills the creature is from the following sources, you don't need a reaction, it just happens:
a: Halo of spore
b: a melee attack that gets extra damage from symbiotic entity
c: chill touch
d: a zombie you control

I'm considering extending the range Fungal Infestation can occur if death occurs via those attacks...

3: The temp HP from symbiotic entity last more than 10 min (I believe this is the case, but the rules are not 100% clear on this, and so I made a ruling)