Circular Publishing: 3.5 and beyond

[Belen]

Leaving the 3.5 arguments behind, I wonder if anyone else has seen this disturbing trend. As we know, the Complete Warrior (Sword and Fist 3.5) will come out this fall. Initial prices are higher than for the original series of splat books.

I am quite certain that we will see an entire "Complete" series of the next few years. It is almost inevitable that a good chunk of these books will take existing 3e material and make it compatible with 3.5. So many will end up buying the same "splat" material again.

This is what I call "circular" publishing. By the time the complete books, 3.5 psionics etc have arrived, it will come time for 4e. Of course, then we will buy the 4e splat books. Many of the material in the 4e splat books will be updates of past material so on and so forth.

I have a fear that this is what WOTC will/ has become. They have a limited staff for R&D, so they have to mine material from older books to complete new books. Meanwhile, we get to buy the same rehashed material again.

In this case, are the books worth it? Will we support a company that takes our money for updates of material we already have? I am not saying that we will get zero new material, I am sure we may see 2-3 original books a year, but there definitely seems to be a trend.

Notice that the 3.5 books have no rules for PrC creation or even updating current PrCs to 3.5. The simple fact is that we will end up paying WOTC to convert PrCs that we already bought.

Am I the only one disturbed by these thoughts?

Dave

 

[Skade]

So long as the product remains useful and interesting, sure. Having played White Wolf games as much as D20 I am quite familar with your circular publsihing. Each edition made a point of remaking books to match the edition. I, as either a suker or a fan, bought them all. So I have two of every clanbook, tradition book, clanbook and quite a few sourcebooks. I use them all, belive it or not. A key factor in this from a WW standpoint is the amount of fluff vs. rules. These books tend to have a lot of flavor text, which I find very useful, and more importantly entertaining. So if the new bopoks from WotC continue to entertain me, and are not entirely rehashed stuff, then yeah, I'll buy them.

 

[Ranger REG]

Leaving the 3.5 arguments behind, I wonder if anyone else has seen this disturbing trend. As we know, the Complete Warrior (Sword and Fist 3.5) will come out this fall. Initial prices are higher than for the original series of splat books.

I am quite certain that we will see an entire "Complete" series of the next few years. It is almost inevitable that a good chunk of these books will take existing 3e material and make it compatible with 3.5. So many will end up buying the same "splat" material again.

So far you have based your argument on the upcoming Complete Warrior supplement, which BTW is going to be hardcover AND will cover martial-related material for the following classes: barbarian, bard, fighter, monk, paladin, and ranger. The new book will be 3.5e-compatible and yes, it may contain revised contents from the Class Guidebooks. But the author promised new material.

This is what I call "circular" publishing. By the time the complete books, 3.5 psionics etc have arrived, it will come time for 4e. Of course, then we will buy the 4e splat books. Many of the material in the 4e splat books will be updates of past material so on and so forth.

It is no different than when TSR revised 2nd edition, and then offered Player's Option books as a replacement to the Complete Handbook series.

I have a fear that this is what WOTC will/ has become. They have a limited staff for R&D, so they have to mine material from older books to complete new books. Meanwhile, we get to buy the same rehashed material again.

Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but they've been "mining" ever since 3e was introduced. I mean we now have 3e version of Manual of the Plane, Deities and Demigods, Arms & Equipment Guide, Fiend Folio, Monster Manual II, etc.

In this case, are the books worth it? Will we support a company that takes our money for updates of material we already have? I am not saying that we will get zero new material, I am sure we may see 2-3 original books a year, but there definitely seems to be a trend.

That's up to the individual consumers. Even I can't gauge the consumer's pulse. All I can tell you is that I personally am not anxious about 3.5e release as I was three years ago, when 3e debuted.

Notice that the 3.5 books have no rules for PrC creation or even updating current PrCs to 3.5. The simple fact is that we will end up paying WOTC to convert PrCs that we already bought.

Can you confirm this? Do you have 3.5e Dungeon Master's Guide?

 

[JoeGKushner]

White Wolf invented Circular Publishing.

I hate to see the fans when Exalted 2nd edition rolls around.

But D&D? Well, it's had more than three editions and as others have pointed out, will have more material updated to incorporate those changes.

THe ironic part is that I bet there's already a post talking about how since product X hasn't been revised that they've been screwed by WoTC. "Man, I can't believe that they didn't revise Product X for 3.5 yet. What the hell is their problem!"

 

[reiella]

Maybe in Fiend Folio 3.5 (to be compatible with DnD 4e of course) will finally have the Flumph converted! .

More seriously however, the reprinting/circularly publication issue is somewhat troubling.

My current odd question however, is exactly how/what you would need to do to actually convert most PrCs over to 3.5?

If it's ranger themed lower their hitdie? If it's bard themed, give them more skills? If it's spellcaster multiclassing themed, give them more Effective Caster Levels?

[ Add ]
Well, ok I just realized that the Lasher would need a rewrite most likly .

 

[Christian Walker]

I have a fear that this is what WOTC will/ has become. They have a limited staff for R&D, so they have to mine material from older books to complete new books. Meanwhile, we get to buy the same rehashed material again.

I plan on buying one book - the PHB. I've tossed in the dumpster/given away five versions of the game already: Blue Box Basic, Red Box Basic, AD&D, AD&D 2e, 3e, and soon another.

I will simply not buy anything else. Ever. Unless it's a zine, 'cause those rule.

 

[Ranger REG]

THe ironic part is that I bet there's already a post talking about how since product X hasn't been revised that they've been screwed by WoTC. "Man, I can't believe that they didn't revise Product X for 3.5 yet. What the hell is their problem!"

They're not gaming veterans. They don't know how to tweak the rules on their own. Sure, they will offer excuses like they don't have the time, or they claim entitlement to tell Wizard how to run their business after investing in their books. To them, it is an inconvenience to which they gladly embellished it.

 

[Belen]

The trouble is not that they reprint some of the books after a decade has passed. The trouble is that if every three cycle includes new versions of:

PHB, DMG, MM, MotP, Pscionics, FR guide, Splat books etc.

2e lasted for many years. We did not get the same material reprinted every three years.

We have to ask ourselves, "do we really want so many versions of the same book?"

And yes, I have the 3.5 DMG and there are no rules for making or converting PrCs.

Dave

 

[hong]

We have to ask ourselves, "do we really want so many versions of the same book?"

Well, "Belen", if that is your clones' real names, speaking purely for ourselves, we have no real problem with spending our money on more WotC material. We don't really mind. Of course, our clones may be different to your clones. Perhaps it's a vat serial number thing.

 

[Fenes 2]

Since for me it suffices to use one thing out of a book to justify its purchase I don't have a problem with buying 3.5E books.