Circular Publishing: 3.5 and beyond

[Anubis the Doomseer]

Originally posted by JoeGKushner
White Wolf invented Circular Publishing.

A sign of someone too young to know proper RPG history. White Wolf was NOT the first - they just did it the most often, with all their product lines.

It's also an old axe to grind against them, so old in fact that you are really just splintering the wooden shaft, because for the past 4 years they haven't released a new edition of anything. The revised release was it.

But D&D? Well, it's had more than three editions and as others have pointed out, will have more material updated to incorporate those changes.

And this is the prime piece of evidence against demonizing White Wolf.

- Ma'at

 

[herald]

Originally posted by JoeGKushner
White Wolf invented Circular Publishing.

A sign of someone too young to know proper RPG history. White Wolf was NOT the first - they just did it the most often, with all their product lines.

<snip>

- Ma'at

No they just re-invented it....

 

[The_Gneech]

I bought 3.0e versions of most things 'cause I hadn't run D&D since 1987 and wanted to be up on it all. (I have 1e versions of most of the core books, but very little 2e stuff.)

With 3.5e, I expect I'll be getting the core books, but probably little else. I haven't gotten enough use out of the 3.0 psionics book / dieties book / epic book etc. to make them worth the investment. The only splatbook I've gotten much use of at all was Tome and Blood, and of that I've used the Spellsword PrC and the "familiar pocket" spell ... either of which I could just as easily have done without.

So circular marketing doesn't bother me ... I just don't buy any more.

-The Gneech

 

[Skade]

Originally posted by JoeGKushner

And this is the prime piece of evidence against demonizing White Wolf.

I thought that is what Demon: the Fallen was for?

I think one of the reasons White Wolf was so demonized by this strategy was because it was very successful, and people resented that. In music if someone becomes too successful they are said to have sold out, I think gaming companies who try to show a profit are seen much the same way.

TSR/WoTC/Hasbro falls into this trap as well. I don't resent any gaming company for churning out products, I just won't buy products I think are substandard or useless.

 

[Arnwyn]

This is what I call "circular" publishing. By the time the complete books, 3.5 psionics etc have arrived, it will come time for 4e. Of course, then we will buy the 4e splat books. Many of the material in the 4e splat books will be updates of past material so on and so forth.

I have a fear that this is what WOTC will/ has become. They have a limited staff for R&D, so they have to mine material from older books to complete new books. Meanwhile, we get to buy the same rehashed material again.

Oy. Ya haven't been around very long, have you? Welcome to D&D (and the RPG industry in general). TSR did this for years, and WotC has been continuing with the same policies. FR products, for example, were regurgitated every couple of years. The 2e PO books were much the same. Look at all the 3e regurgitation.

This isn't anything new. As long as WotC can continue to keep the material fresh and add new innovations, people will continue to buy it.

Sure, they will offer excuses like they don't have the time...

Nice try bud, but this is a perfectly valid "excuse". Some people actually have a job and a life, you know... (not saying you don't).

 

[sithramir]

I actually want to buy updated PrC's. I don't like the idea of spending money every 3 years for the same thing but now that they've fixed a lot of things in 3.5 i'd love to see all the PrC's that were 3.0 being updated. I'd pay for a "book of PrC's if it came out. I can convert them myself sometimes, but a lot of times they might need a huge revision and if I make a mistake or don't realize something it can be overly powered. I'd rather see WoTC do it because they have a staff to do it and thats what I pay them for. Is giving me stuff that is balanced so I can have flavor but not worry about abuse. If they made a book of PrC's and charged 50 bucks for it then maybe i'd be angry, but I like getting some new info in a book and then adding some space containing updated info. I just consider that "free" stuff I already had but now have updated without my effort.

 

[Ace]

Re: Re: Circular Publishing: 3.5 and beyond

I plan on buying one book - the PHB. I've tossed in the dumpster/given away five versions of the game already: Blue Box Basic, Red Box Basic, AD&D, AD&D 2e, 3e, and soon another.

I will simply not buy anything else. Ever. Unless it's a zine, 'cause those rule.

Never Dumpster games Amigo.

If you can't stand the things either give them away (you know I will take them or just dump them at the LGS . Even if those cheep-weed won't pay you somebody will get something out of them

 

[Ace]

I bought 3.0e versions of most things 'cause I hadn't run D&D since 1987 and wanted to be up on it all. (I have 1e versions of most of the core books, but very little 2e stuff.)

With 3.5e, I expect I'll be getting the core books, but probably little else. I haven't gotten enough use out of the 3.0 psionics book / dieties book / epic book etc. to make them worth the investment. The only splatbook I've gotten much use of at all was Tome and Blood, and of that I've used the Spellsword PrC and the "familiar pocket" spell ... either of which I could just as easily have done without.

So circular marketing doesn't bother me ... I just don't buy any more.

-The Gneech

Good approach.

 

[Mark]

Circular publishing goes way back beyond RPGs. People have been repackaging the written word in new ways since the very beginning. "Collections" and "Revised Editions" have always been around and are a time-honored way for publishers to get more mileage from material. The only way they get more money is if they repackage it in a way that appeals to consumers (re-edit, rebind, new illustrations, etc.).

 

[ruleslawyer]

Forgive me if this seems naive, but is it really going to be that hard to perform an effective conversion of PrCs and other splat material to 3.5? I'm flipping through the books right now, and I really don't see any changes that are sufficiently system-altering to require non-trivial revisions to PrCs.

As far as the ranger-ish PrCs go: I don't think there's a need to revise HD or any other class features, for that matter. The 3.5 ranger has more skill points, better saves, and access to better favored enemy and combat path abilities. He gives all of those things up to take a PrC, making it an even trade, AFAIK.

Bard PrCs are few and far between, and those that exist tend to be better enough than the basic bard anyway (spellsinger, virtuoso, warrior skald) that they don't need the extra skill points.

As for multiclassed spellcaster PrCs: the few that I've seen were pretty useless anyway. I've seen many house-ruled to add a few caster levels long before 3.5.