D&D 5E citadel of the planes - thoughts?

[pukunui]

In the old 3e Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, there's an example stronghold called the Citadel of the Planes. It's quite a cool concept: the stronghold features ten separate structures, each on a different plane, linked by two-way portals. Each structure is hidden from the outside by a veil of obscurity.

The citadel's core is in a pyramid in the Shadowfell. It contains the kitchen, a few private rooms, and the portal nexus.

The dining hall is located on Elysium. There's also a private suite and a dock on the River Oceanus. An avoral guardinal appears if someone doesn't speak the correct pass phrase as they walk onto the dock.

The stables are located at the base of a tree on Arborea. In the tree itself is another private suite and a greenhouse.

The smithy is located in a volcano on the Plane of Fire. There's another private suite located here as well. There's a fire elemental that gets summoned up in here; speak the correct pass phrase and it'll help you in the smithy, but speak the wrong one and it attacks.

The citadel's barracks are located on Ysgard, so the troops can fight each other for real without having to worry about anyone staying dead.

There's also a set of rooms located in the city of Dis in the Nine Hells. The citadel's treasurer's office is located in this area, along with the servants' quarters and another private suite (the description of which makes it sound like a succubus' lair). There's a door leading out to the city itself, as well, but if you don't speak the right pass phrase as you go through it, some devils appear and attack you.

There's also a private suite and a dock on the River Styx in the Abyss. A bebilith guards the dock, attacking anyone who doesn't speak the correct pass phrase.

There are some libraries and a wizard's lab (plus private suite) located in a sealed jewel that floats on the Astral Plane. The lab also has a one-way portal to Limbo (for the convenient dumping of problematic experiment results) and several permanent summoning circles.

The bathhouse is located in a chamber of airy water on the Plane of Water.

There's a prison/torture chamber in a cave on the icy sixth layer of Carceri. The cave contains several sets of magic shackles that provide immunity to the negative energy that suffuses the area.


This sounds like it could be a totally rad place to give the PCs as a home base. It's unique. It's flavorful. And it's also quite dangerous ... and that's where I'm a little unsure as to whether or not it's a good idea.

It's not just that the citadel lets the PCs access places like the Hells or the Abyss. It's that if, using the 5e rules, if anyone takes a long rest on any of those planes, there's a danger they'll become evil. Likewise, if anyone decides to take up residence in the suites on Elysium or Arborea, there's a good chance they won't ever want to leave. If they sleep in the rooms on the Shadowfell, they might become too apathetic to go on adventures.

I realize that could make for some fun inter-party roleplaying, but it could also result in the splintering of the party and make it so they're unable to actually go out on any adventures.

What do my fellow DMs think? Cool idea that's totally doable? Cool idea that'll end up being more trouble than it's worth? Or what?

Thanks in advance!

 

[MG.0]

It sounds pretty cool. I'll bet it's expensive beyond imagination to construct though.

The 5th edition alignment bending outer planar effects are optional rules. I don't recommend them, at least not in general. Perhaps applied only in certain domains or under special circumstances they would be OK. Applied generally I think they would interfere with good adventures more than add to them.

 

[pukunui]

It sounds pretty cool. I'll bet it's expensive beyond imagination to construct though.

Yes. I believe the listed price is around 2,000,000 gp. This would be a place that the PCs find already built, though.

The 5th edition alignment bending outer planar effects are optional rules. I don't recommend them, at least not in general. Perhaps applied only in certain domains or under special circumstances they would be OK. Applied generally I think they would interfere with good adventures more than add to them.

I like all the optional planar effects in theory. They help make each place unique. I agree that they can interfere with good adventures, though. Perhaps the effects don't apply within the boundaries of the citadel.

The other concern I have is that I don't want to give the PCs a home base that's more exciting than the adventures they'll be going on.

 

[MG.0]

I like all the optional planar effects in theory. They help make each place unique. I agree that they can interfere with good adventures, though. Perhaps the effects don't apply within the boundaries of the citadel.

I think there are better ways of making the planes unique without beating the characters over the head with alignment changes, which tend to make players annoyed, and make their characters act like psychotic cardboard cutouts. Still, it could be entertaining in small doses - like a demon who suddenly must do good but doesn't understand why he's doing it, and expresses his frustration everytime he helps someone.

The other concern I have is that I don't want to give the PCs a home base that's more exciting than the adventures they'll be going on.

Now that is a problem! You could have the place spring a few surprises on the PC's after they've gotten comfortable though. Perhaps not everything is as it appears to be. Keeping control of it might also be a challenge, given the planar contacts it has.

 

[pukunui]

I think there are better ways of making the planes unique without beating the characters over the head with alignment changes, which tend to make players annoyed, and make their characters act like psychotic cardboard cutouts. Still, it could be entertaining in small doses - like a demon who suddenly must do good but doesn't understand why he's doing it, and expresses his frustration everytime he helps someone.

I think you're exaggerating a bit there. For one thing, the changes aren't irreversible. For another, an alignment change needn't be that drastic.

Now that is a problem! You could have the place spring a few surprises on the PC's after they've gotten comfortable though. Perhaps not everything is as it appears to be. Keeping control of it might also be a challenge, given the planar contacts it has.

Indeed.

 

[MG.0]

I think you're exaggerating a bit there. For one thing, the changes aren't irreversible. For another, an alignment change needn't be that drastic.

I don't think I'm exaggerating much.

Consider the Nine Hells:

OPTIONAL RULE: PERVASIVE EVIL
Evil pervades the Nine Hells, and visitors to this plane
feel its influence. At the end of each long rest taken on
this plane, a visitor that isn't evil must make a DC 10
Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, the creature's
alignment changes to lawful evil. The change becomes
permanent if the creature doesn't leave the plane within
ld4 days. Otherwise, the creature's alignment reverts
to normal after one day spent on a plane other than the
Nine Hells. Casting the dispel evil and good spell on the
creature also restores its original alignment.

An all lawful good party of four adventurers arrives on the plane in a noble quest to defeat some devil. Over the course of a few days (or perhaps on their first long rest, if they are unlucky), all four of them fail their saves and they become lawful evil. That is a very drastic change and the entire adventure is likely moot now, as the party would likely go off to do something evil instead, perhaps befriending the demon. In fact, why would they have any motivation to leave, or 'cure' themselves at all? While I am all for taking adventures in new, unexpected directions, this seems rather hamfisted. Changing the basic motivations of characters by virtue of a die roll is something I would try to avoid. Like I said though, it could be useful im limited contexts, but the entire plane, everytime you go there? I think that would get tedious pretty quickly. "Oh look. Bob's evil again."

 

[pukunui]

I still say you're exaggerating. I can't really see a bunch of goody two shoes wanting to spend even one long rest on a lower plane, let alone several. If for some reason they had to, I'd imagine they'd take precautions.

I think it'd only be ham-fisted if the DM used it as a gotcha. "You spent a night in hell?! You're evil now buddy! Hahahaha!!!" If the players know there's a risk their PCs will turn evil before they go in, they can take precautions.

That being said, I can see not using the optional rules all the time. Maybe they only apply in certain places, like in the vicinity of a god or archdevil or whatever.

I could also see it being made a more gradual process too. Maybe each save you fail gives you a level of exhaustion, but when you hit six levels, instead of dying your alignment changes to match that of the plane.

I'm not sure how that would work with some of the other planar effects, though. Like Elysium and Arborea, which can make you not want to leave.

 

[SkidAce]

I could also see it being made a more gradual process too. Maybe each save you fail gives you a level of exhaustion, but when you hit so levels, instead of dying your alignment changes to match that of the plane.

Yoink! thanks...

 

[MG.0]

That being said, I can see not using the optional rules all the time. Maybe they only apply in certain places, like in the vicinity of a god or archdevil or whatever.

I could also see it being made a more gradual process too. Maybe each save you fail gives you a level of exhaustion, but when you hit so levels, instead of dying your alignment changes to match that of the plane.

I'm not sure how that would work with some of the other planar effects, though. Like Elysium and Arborea, which can make you not want to leave.

That's pretty much what I was saying. I don't think those rules are bad, just a little blunt with room for improvement.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

That's a fantastic idea! The alignment changes and compulsions sound like great fodder for side quests and it should only take one (maybe two) incidents before the players are careful about where they long rest.