Clarification for Advancing Monsters

[clark411]

Alrighty, so I take a CR 5 aberration, advance it to CR 7 with extra hd, and then decide to give it non associated levels. I give it 14 of these levels. It is now CR 14; equal to a elf, human, etc who I could have given 14 class levels of any type.

This... This confuses me. Unless I've missed a line somewhere, it works, but it doesn't make sense.

Insight? Bit of text I missed?

 

[Slapzilla]

If those extra levels are PC Class levels then your CR7 with 14 levels are a CR21, or so. As a CR7 it brings what it is to the table. An elf is a CR '0' by itself. (I know the MM says 1/2 but that is with 1 level of warrior. Now without that Warrior level..?) If either is loaded up with 14 more levels, well just do the math. NPC levels are the level-2 (a 14th level Adept is a CR12) and add it to the base the same way. If the base is 0 (elf) or 7 (your monster) just add the levels onto it.

P.S. Don't forget to add it's feat for it's 6th hd, and skill points for it's new hds, too.

 

[Zurai]

If those extra levels are PC Class levels then your CR7 with 14 levels are a CR21, or so.

Not neccesarily true. According to the rules, a creature with non-associated PC levels (like the OP described) only gain 1/2 the levels to CR until levels = base HD (I believe that's the cutoff -- someone will correct me if it's not). After that, they're full CR. So, for the described aberration (I'll assume it's a 7HD aberration just for simplicity), the first 7 levels would give 3.5 CR, and the final 7 levels would give 7 CR, added to the base 7 CR for a CR 17 or 18 creature.

An example of a non-associated class is an Ogre Sorceror. Ogres are a brute type monster, with high str and con but low charisma, who rely on hitting things really hard to beat enemies. Adding a couple levels of Sorceror really doesn't help the Ogre much at all - sure, it could cast Mage Armor or Shield to help its AC... or it could just wear heavy armor and not need that magical help. Any offensive spells it cast would almost certainly be weaker than just attacking outright.

On the other hand, Fighter or Barbarian would be associated classes for Ogres; adding levels in those classes directly help at what the Ogre does best.

 

[Slapzilla]

Thanks, Zurai. I guess I misunderstood what non-associated meant. Your example of the Ogre Sorcerer/Ogre Barbarian makes perfect sense, too. Makes me wonder what would be associated for an abberation. Gotta go get my books!

 

[Zurai]

Makes me wonder what would be associated for an abberation. Gotta go get my books!

Depends on the Aberration. Mind Flayers would be associated with psionics and arcane casters, while things like dolgrim would be associated with fighters and barbarians (or maybe rogues).

 

[clark411]

Interesting... now is "base hd" defined as those in the original stat block, or as those in the advanced monster?

 

[Geoff Watson]

Alrighty, so I take a CR 5 aberration, advance it to CR 7 with extra hd, and then decide to give it non associated levels. I give it 14 of these levels. It is now CR 14; equal to a elf, human, etc who I could have given 14 class levels of any type.

This... This confuses me. Unless I've missed a line somewhere, it works, but it doesn't make sense.

Insight? Bit of text I missed?

Once the 'non-assoc' class levels equals the original hit dice, any extra levels increase the CR by 1 rather than by 1/2.

Geoff.

 

[Zurai]

Interesting... now is "base hd" defined as those in the original stat block, or as those in the advanced monster?

Go by the monster's non-class hit dice (ie, the "Monstrous Humanoid" or "Aberration" or "Dragon", etc, HD). However many it happens to have.