Class Acts: Duelist Rogue

[Shroomy]

Longsword Finesse. It reduced the SA damage by 1 die.

Yeah, when I first read this feat, I thought it invalidated the longsword finesse feat (not that its the best feat in the world), but then I realized it was more flexible than the versatile duelist feat.

 

[Klaus]

Yeah, when I first read this feat, I thought it invalidated the longsword finesse feat (not that its the best feat in the world), but then I realized it was more flexible than the versatile duelist feat.

Longsword finesse is underpowered. By the same cost of a feat, any character can take a rapier, which has the same stats as a longsword and deals full SA.

 

[Phaezen]

The last feat - Versatile Duelist - makes me pause. While at first blush I think this will be powerful, on the other hand - how many one-handed military heavy blades are that powerful? Or useful. Beyond the Longsword or Broadsword? What's left, the khopesh?

Also, what most people will overlook at first glance is you are giving up the +1 to hit with a dagger. The extra damage does come with a tradeoff.

 

[Shroomy]

Longsword finesse is underpowered. By the same cost of a feat, any character can take a rapier, which has the same stats as a longsword and deals full SA.

As the player of a rapier wielding eladrin artificer/rogue, I'm definitely not going to trade in my blade for a longsword (I even wrote it into my character's background that he had disdain for his people's melee weapon of choice).

 

[keterys]

I'm not sure that you're losing out on enhancement, focus, item, etc bonuses... as long as it's a sneak attack. Cause sneak attack would make it a damage roll (dice, et al).

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I'm not sure that you're losing out on enhancement, focus, item, etc bonuses... as long as it's a sneak attack. Cause sneak attack would make it a damage roll (dice, et al).

I'd say no to this. It needs to be a "weapon damage roll", and you aren't rolling for your weapon. This at-will does: Dex+SA and nothing else. Which means, at 20th level you are likely losing out on weapon(4.5)+enhancement(4)+weapon focus(2)=10.5 damage in exchange for 3d8(assuming Backstabber, 13.5).

It seems like a valid tradeoff to me.

 

[Obryn]

The first two weapons I thought of for Versatile Duelist were the bastard sword (sure you need to spend another feat) and the scimitar (for Scimitar Dance). And being able to use Heavy Blade Opportunity, especially for brutal scoundrel rogues, isn't bad.

If the feat specifies Military weapons, then the Bastard Sword won't work. It's a Superior weapon, whether you take the feat or not.

-O

 

[keterys]

I'd say no to this. It needs to be a "weapon damage roll"

Are you arguing rules on that, or just how you want it to work? *curious* If the latter, sure, that's fine and probably intended. I assume the same would apply to a critical-ed Furious Smash (crit damage dice) and horned helm Knockdown Assault charge (1d6 from helm)?

If the former, can you provide a rules cite since this has come up in some LFR games.

 

[Jack99]

I'd say no to this. It needs to be a "weapon damage roll", and you aren't rolling for your weapon. This at-will does: Dex+SA and nothing else. Which means, at 20th level you are likely losing out on weapon(4.5)+enhancement(4)+weapon focus(2)=10.5 damage in exchange for 3d8(assuming Backstabber, 13.5).

It seems like a valid tradeoff to me.

At 21st, you gain another 9 damage against 4,5 (assuming rapier; 2,5 if using dagger).

 

[Shroomy]

Are you arguing rules on that, or just how you want it to work? *curious* If the latter, sure, that's fine and probably intended. I assume the same would apply to a critical-ed Furious Smash (crit damage dice) and horned helm Knockdown Assault charge (1d6 from helm)?

If the former, can you provide a rules cite since this has come up in some LFR games.

Well, I think that the Wizard CA from earlier this week clarified the issue. Duelist's Flurry has a "Hit" line, so any effects that trigger on a hit (like critical damage dice) would apply, but since there is no damage roll, any effects that would require a roll (like brutal damage) would not apply.