Class Balance - why?

[SlyDoubt]

This discussion got pretty wild with the introduction of Gandalf.

Just because Gandalf and Merlin represent the human archetype of a magic using character doesn't mean they represent anything like the wizard in dungeons and dragons.

Those characters are examples of the modern foundation, not the actual representation. They're where I think most people get the idea of 'magic' from (at least north america and western europe I think).

They aren't any more than characters who used magic in some form. That's the important part to remember. I don't think the wizard in D&D specifically resembles any other wizard except for itself. Just like I think the cleric in it's D&D form is pretty specific too. It's just a difference between passive and active influence. I don't think the D&D wizard is specifically modeled after gandalf or merlin. He's just also a magic user (which is a big thing to have in common) and along with that come all sorts of assumptions due to merlin and gandalf being sort of the cultural foundation of magic for I think most english speakers.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Here, it's simple. You enjoy your thing. I enjoy my thing. Stay away from my thing just like I stay away from your thing.

That is a great argument for continuing to have 4e and Pathfinder continue along as they were. 5e's goal, while laudible in noble sentiment, is not practical.

We can both hope that 5E is our thing. Or not. Maybe you hope it's your thing. I don't.

I'm not the hopeful type. ;( Rationally, I look at the rhetoric coming from WotC, it's ostensible fans and critics, and the realities of the OGL vs GSL and the market, and I have to expect that 5e will be catering to your thing, not mine. And that 4e, which comes closer to 'my thing' will be actively supressed by WotC (at some point, it's on-line-only tool suite will be shut down and the GSL lets WotC block any 3pps from supporting or cloning 4e the way Paizo did 3.5) to bring 4e hold-outs on board with 5e.

All I want is for history and previous designs and ideas not to be forgotten for the sake of balance.

I'd like to see the history and previous designs remembered, yes. But in the sense of learning from the mistakes of the past rather than repeating them for the sake of nostalgia and inertia.