Class being penalized for doing its thing?

[Zelligars Apprentice]

Touch of Healing Reserve Feat, Complete Champion.

Thank you! I don't have that book, so I didn't know it.

 

[Gentlegamer]

Ha. That reminds me of a conversation I had with my brother.

We were talking about a Halo FPS game that would have 100+ players in it, as a purely hypothetical thing. I said something along the lines of "I would just fly a Pelican, and move other players around".

In those types of games, I *love* being the support guy. People love you for it. When I play Halo 2 on Live, my favourite thing to do is be the guy driving the warthog when the guy next to you has the flag. Sure, he gets the glory of getting the point, but it couldn't be done without you.

In our current D&D game, I'm a mage that steals the spotlight from time to time. But mostly, I cast Haste, Bull's Strength, or other buffs on my allies. I like the support roles, what can I say?

I believe that you are a player, like me, for whom the saying "I love it when a plan comes together" describes the embodiment of skillful play.

 

[Hussar]

From a note about the coming new edition:What does this mean in the context of current and previous D&D? How are the various class types "penalized" for doing their thing? I don't understand this comment.

Quasqueton

Currently, a character who chooses a particular role becomes so locked into that role that any deviation from that role is penalized heavily. Casters who want to have a bit of melee power give up huge amounts later in the game for example. A skill monkey who doesn't take rogue at first level is hosed.

Granted that's for those who step out of their defined role.

For those who remain in their role, they get hosed as soon as something comes up for which their role isn't specifically designed for. Rogues who face undead are worse than a mage with no spells. A fighter who specializes in Tank gets hosed as soon as he faces anything with a touch attack. A blaster mage gets hosed by SR and saving throws. A healer gets hosed ... well, I'm not sure where a healer gets hosed honestly.

The trick is, every niche has a fairly large blind spot where the niche gets hosed. That means the DM can either never (or rarely) use certain challenges or he screws over a particular player.

If you widen the niches a bit, or at least mitigate areas where those niches get hosed, then you get less time of the player sitting on his hands during the game.

 

[Arashi Ravenblade]

You cant get the glory all the time.
Ive never played in a game where the Wizard ran out of spells. Course I also played with people who like to act as if Mages can get into melee and do well. They stocked up on potions, Scrolls, Staves and Wands. Not at low levels mind you. I still remember my brothers first mage character hitting a 7th level rogue smuggler/Merchant who was a fence over the head with a staff. Rolled max damage and got a crit. I had to roll up the NPC's HP fast, I rolled really low! After all was said and done he had at level 1 killed a 7th level npc at -5 hp.

 

[Malleus Arianorum]

How are the various class types "penalized" for doing their thing? I don't understand this comment.

They mean "penalty" as in something bad added to a character to achieve ballance. Whereas a "bonus" or "class feature" is something good. 4th edition classes will only have bonuses, never penalties. Instead of limiting Clerics to simple weapons (a penalty) they'll give Fighters exlusive weapon styles (a bonus!). Instead of forcing Clerics to take virtualy all their skills as cross-class (a penalty) they'll give everyone else more skills (a bonus!)

If you know the systems inside and out you won't notice anything, your mind will automaticaly convert the spin into cold hard analysis. Example: Does a human have normal vision in 3.5 or not? As it's written, human vision is 'normal.' But you (an experienced player) know that humans are one of the few creatures without some kind of improved night vision.

It's the same as calling the average 10, and then generating characters with something better than streight 3d6: everyone is above average.

 

[Minicol]

I think wizards should have to pull out crossbows. In most fantasy fiction, mages don't cast spells all danged day. Eldritch blast is okay for the warlock - there is a conceptual reason for it - but wizards should not be zotting people every round.

Instead of not penalizing wizards by making them pull out the crossbow, how about making using a crossbow not a penalty?

I agree with this.
The unlimited magic missile may be good for a continual combat type of game, but makes no sense from a concept of world-building.

 

[Glyfair]

The unlimited magic missile may be good for a continual combat type of game, but makes no sense from a concept of world-building.

I disagree. It may not make sense in what you have, but it's not harder to fit in than any number of fantasy archetypes.

 

[Minicol]

I disagree. It may not make sense in what you have, but it's not harder to fit in than any number of fantasy archetypes.

I have not explained myself enough : if the "magic" character classes start having "unlimlited" powers, it should show in the D&D world, the way fantasy society works, and the way the game is run.

Typically, the wizards are not liked in fantasy wordls, as they have eldritch powers, but a mob of peasants can still get them once they run out of magic missiles and bash the door to the tower.

The clerics are supposed to be holy pepole sent by the gods who get to cure sick people now and then. Which is already wonderful. If they have unlimited curing, then you eradicate sickness hunger and death from the world. And probably a lot of respect as well.

And then, it makes the task of adventuring parties / armies so much easier, that the problem of justifying that are still any living monsters around might be a problem.

Of course, I imagine the new books are already printed by now, so I don't expect anything to change until may, when we can see what it looks like.

 

[Aloïsius]

Of course, I imagine the new books are already printed by now, so I don't expect anything to change until may, when we can see what it looks like.

Huh ? No, they are looking for playtesters... Plus, if the printed the books 10 months in advance, the risk of leaks would be to high.

So, I think they won't be print before february.

Typically, the wizards are not liked in fantasy wordls, as they have eldritch powers, but a mob of peasants can still get them once they run out of magic missiles and bash the door to the tower.

In most D&D setting, the village's wizard is its best protector and a community leader. Only the most stupid peasants attack him.
If magic is persecuted somewhat, then, it's because clerics don't like it. And your problem is solved, because a mob led by a cleric will probably be able to burn the tower.

The clerics are supposed to be holy pepole sent by the gods who get to cure sick people now and then. Which is already wonderful. If they have unlimited curing, then you eradicate sickness hunger and death from the world. And probably a lot of respect as well.

I think cure light wound or something like that will be "always on". But you don't cure black pest with cure light wound. And I doubt you can cure hunger with it also...

 

[Glyfair]

I have not explained myself enough : if the "magic" character classes start having "unlimlited" powers, it should show in the D&D world, the way fantasy society works, and the way the game is run.

Typically, the wizards are not liked in fantasy wordls, as they have eldritch powers, but a mob of peasants can still get them once they run out of magic missiles and bash the door to the tower..

To give an example that's somewhat close:

In the TV show Charmed the main characters had abilities that were essentially "at will." At the same time, it was indicated that the average person was threatened by the idea of witches and they spent larges amounts of time keeping their abilities secret. They were even wounded (and even killed) by normal people during the series.