Class for a leader of men

[The Souljourner]

So... a lot of the legendary leader stuff kinda depends on using the ruleset in that book for commander ranks etc. Plus, for some bizarre reason they get 3/4 BAB (which in a 5 level class is almost equivalent to 1/2 BAB).

So I think I'm just going to design my own, something with a little from all these classes.

 

[Felix]

He's currently 10th level, fighter/swashbuckler/dervish.

Why is this a bad class to be a "Leader Of Men"?

Leading as the captain of the guard is a role-playing honor, and you can do it with any class combination.

A Barbarian Captain will be less concerned with people breaking the rules than breaking with tradition. He'll also be leading from the front, instead of telling people to "go get them".

A Bard captain will inspire his troops and have a good way of keeping them spirited via Perform (Oratory)

A Cleric captain will oversee his men's spiritual growth as well as their physical; the task of guarding will become not only a duty to the city, but a duty to god.

A Druid captain (least likely) will emphasize using wildlife tactics (stalk, ambush, track) and will be as vigilant against crime and invasion as he is against locals despoiling their city.

A Fighter captain will focus on tactics and training, just like he does.

A Monk captain will encourage the use of subdual damage and capture, as well as a strict regemin of training of the mind and body.

A Paladin captain will lead by example, again from the front, and want his men to lead a virtuous life even if they are not paladins. Stopping Evil, no matter the illegality of it, will be paramouint to this captain.

A Ranger captain will, like the druid, utilize skills generally found outside civilization, with the added fun of likley instilling his dislike (if that's what Favored Enemy means to the player) of his Favored Enemies into the city guard.

A Rogue captain will encourage his men to employ stealth and ambush tactics instead of meeting transgressors head-on.

A Wizard captain will use his magic to uncover information about transgressions to aid his men's pursuit of the culprits.

A Sorcerer will assualt the enemies of his city with a magical barrage.​

And every single one of those classes may change its technique for leading based on how the character is built: a mechanic rogue is going to be miles different from a social rogue in the Captain of the Guard position, as will blaster sorcerers vs illusion sorcerers.

The point is, your player's character as he is built brings a certain suite of abilities to the role of Captain of the Guard. Those abilities got him this position: why should he suddenly lose the powers that got him the job in the first place once he gets it? And why would role-playing honors, like being named Captain, be met with a mechanical re-configuration? Tell him to role-play; how would his fighter/swashbuckler/dervish react to this responsibility?

If he's used to being free of ties, and quickly moving from place to place as a nomad, how would he react to being forced to stay in one town?

If he's used to being in the thick of the fighting, how does he react to having a desk job where he sends younger less powerful men off to die.

These are intruiguing questions and they shouldn't be met with, "Oh, well he's a martial now, so he's suddenly used to leading men."

 

[The Souljourner]

Felix - while I agree that it presents interesting roleplaying challenges, I was hoping to add some crunch to the character to represent his skill at leading troops.

What I just proposed to my DM was a swap of his only two levels of rogue for two levels of marshal. Call it atonement for his darker days, he puts aside the tools he used during those times, and trains to become a better leader. Trade out his most recent feat acquisition (improved crit: scimitar - ouch) for Leadership, and have him ready to enter the prestige class I've created.

Here's a link to the house rules forum where I just posted the PrC:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=3366733

-Nate

 

[Felix]

Felix - while I agree that it presents interesting roleplaying challenges, I was hoping to add some crunch to the character to represent his skill at leading troops.

If he just recently became Captain of the Guard and a leader of men, then why would his previous experiences reflect any ability to lead at all?

He's 10th level. Take 2 levels of Marshall at 11th and 12th, and Leadership at 12th. Have him work for it.

Call it atonement for his darker days, he puts aside the tools he used during those times, and trains to become a better leader.

I never did really agree with the PHBII's "Retraining" focus. I felt that while characters may develop and change their attitudes, they will always have those skillsets that they choose not to use anymore. He chooses not to Move Silently or Sneak Attack? This becomes meaningful only if he is still able to do it. If he has the ability but abstains from it, then it is poignant. If he no longer has the ability, then not using it doesn't matter.

Or he can use those Rogue abilities to color what kind of Captain he is. He moves so quietly, his men never know when he may be standing right behind them. He feints so well that none dare to spar with him. Those qualities may not define him anymore, but they color his background and color the choices he makes as a leader.

If this job represents a change, then let him change: but from now on. His job now doesn't mean he wasn't rogue-y 5 levels ago.

 

[The Souljourner]

You make a good point, Felix. I may just go with that idea. However, two things - one, he's been a captain of the guard for a few levels, I as a player just hadn't started thinking about that kind of focus in his career, and feel I should have probably made a few different choices. Second, he's in a unique position in-game. He and the party are 5 years in the future from their own time, trying to learn everything they can about an orc invasion that is destroying all the civilized towns... and when they go back to their own time, they'll have to set about either making an army to repel them, or somehow using their power as PCs to prevent the war from happening. Given that we're already time travelling, I figured a little mystical transformation might not be in appropriate.

But gaining a couple levels first wouldn't be the end of the world either (at least I hope not

-Nate

 

[Felix]

he's been a captain of the guard for a few levels, I as a player just hadn't started thinking about that kind of focus in his career, and feel I should have probably made a few different choices.

You say he's a Fighter/Swash/Dervish. Which levels have you taken most recently?

Since the Dervish levels are the PrC, and they're generally the most recent, why swap out Rogue levels (Did you mean Swash by this?) when he's been a captain while gaining Dervish levels?

 

[The Souljourner]

(in order) He's rogue 2, fighter 2, swash 3, fighter 2, Dervish 1. Yes, dervish is most recent. The reason I was talking about losing the rogue levels were for roleplaying reasons. yes, if all I wanted to do was undo the most recent past, I'd probably remove the last two levels of fighter and dervish and then go 2 levels of marshal and start my PrC on level 10.

So... sorry, didn't mean to confuse things.

-Nate

 

[Kafkonia]

Personally, I think the knight and the marshall can work quite well in concert. They both use CHA for their key abilities, the marshall's skill points and skill selection can compensate for the limited number the knight has, and some of their abilities complement each other nicely for certain roles - it's hard to pass up DR 1/- for every nearby ally, for instance.

I'm aiming in that direction myself in the Shackled City.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Some people have already mentioned Bard, but I think the Warchanter PrC from CW would be the best, especially if he's already ~10th level. Of course, you'd need Bard levels first...

 

[Hurloon]

Evangelist from the Complete Divine can be entertaining.