Classes: You're designing the next PHB, and...

Which 11 classes would you like to see made core in a hypothetical new PHB?

  • Barbarian

    Votes: 249 61.2%
  • Bard

    Votes: 242 59.5%
  • Cleric

    Votes: 354 87.0%
  • Druid

    Votes: 269 66.1%
  • Fighter

    Votes: 381 93.6%
  • Monk

    Votes: 170 41.8%
  • Paladin

    Votes: 211 51.8%
  • Ranger

    Votes: 243 59.7%
  • Rogue

    Votes: 380 93.4%
  • Sorcerer

    Votes: 202 49.6%
  • Wizard

    Votes: 345 84.8%
  • Healer

    Votes: 37 9.1%
  • Marshal

    Votes: 43 10.6%
  • Hexblade

    Votes: 53 13.0%
  • Samurai

    Votes: 11 2.7%
  • Swashbuckler

    Votes: 106 26.0%
  • Favored Soul

    Votes: 59 14.5%
  • Shugenja

    Votes: 10 2.5%
  • Spirit Shaman

    Votes: 50 12.3%
  • Warlock

    Votes: 150 36.9%
  • Warmage

    Votes: 44 10.8%
  • Wu-Jen

    Votes: 10 2.5%
  • Ninja

    Votes: 38 9.3%
  • Scout

    Votes: 150 36.9%
  • Spellthief

    Votes: 31 7.6%
  • Psion

    Votes: 158 38.8%
  • Psychic Warrior

    Votes: 99 24.3%
  • Soulknife

    Votes: 23 5.7%
  • Wilder

    Votes: 28 6.9%
  • Artificer

    Votes: 116 28.5%

IMO, the core 11 should be MECHANICALLY different from one another. Flavor is completely irrelevant, as these are the classes you mold your campaign from, not the ones that mold your campaign.

With that in mind, I voted for:

Artificer
The artificer has a unique schtick which isn't all that appropriate for PCs, but is absolutely needed for NPCs and can work for PCs.
In some way weaker than in 3e.
Cleric
I hate the arcane/divine divide, but mechanically the cleric class has a necessary function as a building block - it's the core fighter/mage class.
As in 3e, but with bard spellcasting progression.
Fighter
Again, a necessary building-block class. PrCs, feats and multiclassing produce advanced fighters like the ranger and paladin.
4 sp/level and true high-level feats, but otherwise unchanged.
Marshal
I love buffing classes, and the marshal is mechanically unique as a non-magical buffer. He's also a combat oriented non-fighter, good for aristocrat-type NPCs.
Identical to his current form.
Monk
The monk fills the 'light, fast-hitting fighter' role. As a skirmisher with a focus on combat, he's an important building block class.
Loses his magical high-level abilities, possibly in return for 1/1 BAB.
Psychic Warrior
The second fighter/mage core class, the psychic warrior is to the monk what the cleric is to the fighter.
Identical to his current form.
Rogue
Unambiguously the skill-based character core class. He's probably the best-designed PHB core class, flexible yet functional and scaling.
Identical to his current form, possibly called 'expert.'
Scout
The non-magical 'nature boy' core class. Necessary as a prerequisite for specialized natural classes like druid (scout-cleric) and ranger (scout-fighter-cleric).
Identical to his current form.
Warlock
Strictly better design than the wizard-clone sorcerer, a mechanically distinct caster class with a lot to add.
Similar to his current form, but without the 'eeeeevil' flavor.
Wilder
Unlike the psion (a point system wizard), the wilder is truly a mechanically distinct clas that offers something no other class does.
Identical to his current form.
Wizard
The pure caster, and the only one with a wealth of high-level spells. Obviously, with the other changes, he's mechanically distinct.
Identical to his current form.
 

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Essentially unchanged in concept:
Fighter -- Cornerstone class. The "sword" part of "sword and sorcery".
Rogue -- About the only change would be to allow sneak attack to be swapped for something less combative.
Wizard -- The other half of sword and sorcery. Spell points would be fine, though. As would a d6 HD, but those aren't big changes to the class.
Warlock -- Sorcerer done right. Just add an expanded list of Invocations
Artificer -- The alchemist/artificer has been done in many editions, multiple times. It's time to recognize it in the core rules. The Eberron version is nice and workable.

Somewhat altered in concept:
Cleric -- I'd remove the combat priest and make it more of a priest, with warlike clerics needing to multiclass to Fighter (etc.). Also, change the turn undead to allow pretty much any variant use that's been presented to be the option at 1st level -- better yet, have it determined by domain. If done right, the druid could be rolled into the class. Finally, find a middle-ground between the 3.x domains and the 2E spheres.
Ranger -- Make this a more generic wildlander. Hybridize with Barbarian, so the class is hardier than the Fighter. Drop Evasion in favor of Uncanny dodge. Ditch TWF. Allow options in place of being homicidal (favored enemy, rage, combat style, favored terrain, skirmish).
Swashbuckler -- Represents a skilled, light-weight fighter, whether that's a swordsman or a martial artist. Don't have mystic abilities or abilities that depend on sword-play. Boost AC, give attack benefits.

Thrown in to round things out:
Bard -- Could be rolled into rogue, if done right, but there does need to be some way to fill both the magical music archetype and the supernaturally charismatic archetype.
Spellthief -- This concept makes so much sense in a fantasy setting.
Wilder -- I see psionics as being odd mutations, so the Wilder makes the most sense.
 

Wow, look at all the folks down on the poor sorcerer...it's a great class for people who are trying out a spellcaster for the first time. Like it or not, the PHB's gotta be newbie-friendly, not some ultra-advanced toolkit. That's what supplements are for.

That's also why the "barbarians, rangers, and paladins can all be re-created by making their abilities into fighter feats" line is lame.
 

Felon said:
Wow, look at all the folks down on the poor sorcerer...it's a great class for people who are trying out a spellcaster for the first time. Like it or not, the PHB's gotta be newbie-friendly, not some ultra-advanced toolkit. That's what supplements are for.

But most people are replacing the sorcer with the warlock, and I find the warlock to be a lot easier to use from a player perspective. The only confusing thing about the class is the distinction between spells and spell-like abilities.
 

Yeah, Warlock would be the only reasonable replacement for the Sorcerer in the core rules, because of the simplicity. :)

Bye
Thanee
 

Brennin Magalus said:
I chose Artificer, Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Paladin, Rogue, Scout, Sorcerer (Monte Cook's version), and Wizard.
Gee, Monte Cook's sorcerer but not his vastly-superior-to-the-core-version bard?
 

I'd drop the Monk from the Core and add either the Scout or the Swashbuckler. I don't mind the Monk, but I think that it's better left as an oriental add on, and the game needs another skilled non-caster.

However, nothing wrong with how things are set up as well.
 

mhacdebhandia said:
Gee, Monte Cook's sorcerer but not his vastly-superior-to-the-core-version bard?

Monte's Bard would break the "only one magic system in the PHB" rule that seems to be pretty common (that's why I dumped Sorcerer for Warmage instead of Warlock or Psion).
 

Benben said:
But most people are replacing the sorcer with the warlock, and I find the warlock to be a lot easier to use from a player perspective. The only confusing thing about the class is the distinction between spells and spell-like abilities.

I don't think it takes a lot of scratching beneath the surface of these two classes to realize that a warlock isn't even close to being a replacement for a sorcerer. In fact, I'd say that despite all of the fawning over the "coolness" of the class, from a practical standpoint the warlock isn't good at much of anything. Sure, it's simple, but it's not powerful and it's not versatile and it doesn't fill any particular niche.

I have to wonder how many folks have actually seen a high-level warlock in play. Wouldn't the round-by-round repetitiveness start to bug you even a little bit?

Round 1: Fill a 20 foot spread with Chilling Tentacles.
Round 2: Fill another 20 foot spread with Chilling Tentacles.
Round 3: Yep, you guessed...more Chilling Tentacles. Sure, it's tedious, but it's the best power he's got, and he's got unlimited uses of it.
 
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The Big 10 (-Monk) + Healer, Favored Soul.

What, no love for the Kingdoms of Kalamar PC Classes (Brigand, Infiltrator, Shaman etc) or even the DMG 3.0 Class (Witch)
 

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