Classic Dungeons: all of them to exist in the new edition

[PeterWeller]

Distaste for Dark Sun? Bill wrote the revised version of the Dark Sun Campaign Setting. While I understand that most people prefer the original version, I would have trouble believing that the negative changes were a deliberate attempt at sabotage.

Not to mention that most of the "negative" changes were the product of Troy Denning's novel series. Bill just added some stuff around the edges.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Distaste for Dark Sun? Bill wrote the revised version of the Dark Sun Campaign Setting. While I understand that most people prefer the original version, I would have trouble believing that the negative changes were a deliberate attempt at sabotage.

I know he was involved in the Revised DS. That still doesn't mean his taste now is the same as it was then. And I said it was rumored. I have heard second- and third-hand for years now that Bill is not excited about the setting.

And I said nothing about the negative opinion of certain fans towards the changes nor Bill's culpability for them. FWIW, I know most of the changes to Dark Sun were planned from the start of the design process of the first boxed set. I interviewed Troy Denning years ago for Athas.org and we covered the changes between boxes issue.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I like sci-fi elements in D&D. An alien being that crashed and became the object of worship by an isolated people/cult. A spaceship buried in ice that acts as a dungeon. Fallen high-tech civilizations with rusting, jungle-covered ruins and dangerous inhabitants. The occasional ancient artifact or "golem" (robot). Psionic four-armed apes that worship Great Cthulhu and wait for the stars to become right.

I'll even go farther, for some campaigns. Flying airships, projectile weapons, and ray guns. Barsoom. Blackmoor. Et cetera.

I love Tolkien-style fantasy. I also love weird tales, swords and sorcery, swords and planet, and that early period when fantasy was still considered part of the science fiction genre, and there was a lot of crossover influence. These elements were present in D&D from the beginning.

Years ago, I used to think that sci-fi elements had no place in D&D. My tastes have changed, however.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Ah, good old Planetary Romance.

But that goes back to Pulp. Kane of Old Mars by Michael Moorock? Scorpio tales? Something about Mars? Those are all, you know, non-D&D. No elements of fantasy to them. No high action with humans interacting with things man was not meant to know. This new edition is meant to capture points of light and minimize on magic items, you know like oh wait.... Sword and Sorcery material was published at that time too and a lot of potential crossovers were involved there? No. Once again, WoTC knows better than us. Just sit back and let them tell us what we like.

 

[Reaper Steve]

Once again, WoTC knows better than us. Just sit back and let them tell us what we like.

The thing is, if it's in the setting, it defines the setting. They (and me, and many others) want D&D to be fantasy, without sci-fi.

It's easy enough to add it in, if that's your thing, but the opposite is not true.

 

[Imaro]

The thing is, if it's in the setting, it defines the setting. They (and me, and many others) want D&D to be fantasy, without sci-fi.

It's easy enough to add it in, if that's your thing, but the opposite is not true.

Eh, this would have more merit if the conversation was centered around say...a core rulebook. However I think modules are exactly the place to experiment with fringe stuff (with the caveat that the rules for such are included). Why waste all the money it takes to make a supplemental book or campaign setting when you can test the waters with feedback from things like modules (of course looking at the Shadowfell $30 price point...I could be wrong).

 

[JoeGKushner]

The thing is, if it's in the setting, it defines the setting. They (and me, and many others) want D&D to be fantasy, without sci-fi.

It's easy enough to add it in, if that's your thing, but the opposite is not true.

Because once Barrier Peaks was ran it completely changed the scope of Greyhawk?

I can't speak for others. I'm not saying that D&D NEEDS such a module but when talking about 'CLASSIC' adventures, a 20+ year adventure that is highly praised and done by one of the masters must fit the defintion of a classic adventure or your talking about a D&D that has nothing to do with any reality save for the one constructed in your own mind.

Heck, it's #5 in the 30 greatest Adventures for D&D.

In my own opinioin, the designers really need to stop telling us what they're version of D&D is and when talking about classic material, keep what's actually classic in mind as opposed to what they think is classic (i.e. Mike Mearls versus Keep on the Borderlands.)

 

[Mouseferatu]

I interviewed Troy Denning years ago for Athas.org and we covered the changes between boxes issue.

Link? I'd love to read that.

 

[Maggan]

(i.e. Mike Mearls versus Keep on the Borderlands.)

A bit extreme to ask for people who might one day design for D&D to watch their tongue years and years ahead of the fact, IMO.

I mean, it's not as if Mearls knew that he had to appease the fickle whims of D&D fandom as a representative of the 4th ed design team when he expressed his opinion about Keep on the Borderlands.

Because then, every game designer had best shut up about every opinion about D&D they have, out of fear of slighting some fan or the other. Just in case they one day might write something for the game, and have that opinion dragged through the streets as being a representation of the opinion of WotC as a collecive hive mind.

Assuming that (in)famous review is what you are referring to, of course.

/M

 

[The Little Raven]

Somehow, I think the game's creators knew a little more about D&D than anybody mucking with it now.

If that was true, then the system would have been a lot better than it was. I mean, if Gygax and Arneson were better game designers than the current crop, they'd have come up with the idea of a consistent core mechanic instead of the slap-dash system they did, right?

They were pioneers, I agree. They are not game design paragons, by any means.