D&D 4E Classless 4e

[Sylrae]

Has anyone given this any thought? The way the classes are designed is much more modular than they used to be.

Perhaps all the abilities could be assigned values, all the class features assigned values, and all the stats as well, so that you can just point buy your characters? There were rules for this in 3e but they weren't used much. in 4e this Idea seems more the way to go.

basically give everyone access to ALL the abilities, and have the classes just be suggested groupings.

what do you guys think? would it be a good Idea? it would certainly resolve my issues with 4e multiclassing.

 

[TimeOut]

Interesting. Maybe the player should choose a power source first. All powers of this first source would cost the normal amount of points, while powers from other sources are more expensive. Or each additional source costs more points.

That would keep the balance, but encurages characters to take powers from their source.

 

[Sylrae]

your idea of "Power Source" would be a class I'm assuming?

the whole point is to allow something like the 50/50 warlock wizard. or 1/3 1/3 1/3 Fighter Rogue Ranger, using the abilities you want. essentially the ability to custom build any class you want using the existing building blocks from existing classes.

so making them cost more if they come from a different class would defeat the purpose. the intent is to make the player not need to pick a class.

I suppose your idea would work if your power source supplied the statistical abilities, but then you'd need ot figure out what classes are equivalent in value per ability.

still. is it worth pursuing?

 

[TimeOut]

No, the power sources are: Martial, Arcane, Divine and so on.

Your Rogue/Fighter/Ranger would be fine, because all those powers come from the martial source. But if he wants to cast a Fireball... Fine, but since that is an arcane power, it should cost more.

It is just an idea, to keep a certain balance.

 

[Sylrae]

Well now. that might work. don't have an actual system worked out or anything, but it would definitely be interesting.

 

[Entropi]

I'd advocate a more elegant system not based on point-buy.

The main allure of a classless system in 4E is that powers for all classes will be pooled, greatly enhancing the available options. There is no need to point-buy powers, as they are already grouped into levels.

4E is all about the powers. Well, it's about the class features too, but it would seem inelegant to have to point-buy just attributes and class features. I dunno - just seems so 3E.

More elegant solutions:

Turn most class features into feats. Allow PCs to choose an extra couple feats at level 1.

Compile the class features into a list of, simply, Features. Starting PCs may select a number of initial features at level 1, and gain additional ones according to a schedule (much like powers - think Features Known).

Every PC gets every class feature.

 

[Sylrae]

thats kindof what I was describing. but how would you do hit point values? saves? what are the different types worth? skillpoints?

your idea works great for things that are daily powers that are just nonoptional. but what about the other parts of a class?

 

[Khuxan]

thats kindof what I was describing. but how would you do hit point values? saves? what are the different types worth? skillpoints?

your idea works great for things that are daily powers that are just nonoptional. but what about the other parts of a class?

Weapon proficiencies, skill training, armor proficiencies and bonuses to Defenses are all already covered by the feat system. All you need is how many feats a certain HP/HS value is worth, and how much each class feature is worth.

 

[Entropi]

Or just use an average value (of all classes) for HP/HS.

You would need a base template that defines the elements defined in the Class Traits boxes in the PHB. A Classless Traits template.

Start with a conservative number of proficiencies and buy others with feats.

Start with training in any 3 skills.

Start with average HP/HS.

No bonus to defense (or perhaps player may choose which def to start at +2)

etc.

Class features is the tricky one. The more I think about it, the more I think point-buy would be necessary for class features after all.

 

[Sylrae]

average hit points isnt good either. you should be able to make all the default classes, as well as characters who are freeform combinations of the defaults.