Clay Golem wound vs. fast healing/regen.

[SoulStorm]

Subject line pretty much speaks for itself. Would a Clay Golems wound prevent regen/fast healing? I guess the real question is whether or not regen and fast healing are considered to be natural healing?

 

[pontus]

Regeneration is always Extraordinary, and I have only seen Extraordinary Fast Healing. So yes, they are natural.

 

[SoulStorm]

Wow, that makes Shifters in Clay Golem form vicious against fast healing/regenerating opponents. Actually, it would seem that turning into a Clay Golem is arguably under most circumstances the most powerful form a Shifter can take.

Does this potential make the Shifter unbalanced?

 

[Starfox]

Against a regenerating creature, the Clay Golem would only make subdual damage, and I say that subdual damage could still be healed as normal through regeneration - it is no longer "clay golem special damage".

Fast healing would probably be prevented, though.

 

[kreynolds]

From the Clay Golem desc...

Wound (Ex): The damage a clay golem deals doesn’t heal naturally. Only a heal spell or a Healing spell of 6th level or higher can heal it.

That doesn't sound like normal wounding. It also implies that normal healing won't heal that damage, such as regen. or fast healing. Hmmmm....oh sage!?!

 

[SoulStorm]

I appreciate the feedback so far. Anyone else have an opinion?

 

[hong]

Regeneration is always Extraordinary, and I have only seen Extraordinary Fast Healing. So yes, they are natural.

"Natural" abilities don't necessarily include all Extraordinary abilities. The only other instance of "natural" I'm aware of in the rules is the description for polymorph self/other. The spell grants you all the natural abilities of the target form, but also explicitly disallows all the extraordinary (and supernatural) abilities. Thus if you polymorph into a troll, for instance, you don't gain regeneration as a result.

To bring it back on-topic, just because regen is Ex doesn't mean it's "natural". It seems that "natural" is being used here to mean an ability that could conceivably exist in a real-world creature, in which case "natural healing" would mean the 1 hp/HD/day you regain from resting normally. The clay golem's wounding negates that sort of healing (as well as magical healing from anything less than a 6th level Healing spell). If you have regen, you would still regain your hp as usual.

 

[Starfox]

I think Hong has this covered pretty well, and rest my case (not that he is contradicting me).

 

[Darklone]

Agreed

I agree with Hong. If you change into something does mean you get the natural abilities of the thing (such as a troll). Regeneration and Fast healing is NOT natural there. That way, it should help against the wounding ability.

 

[pontus]

Polymorph is a handicapped spell, but you are probably right when it comes to Regeneration. However, Fast Healing is described as being "just like natural healing" unless the creature's description says otherwise.