D&D 5E Help parsing 3rd party spell

[sus323]

The character's next turn is the turn they next take after dropping to 0 hp. So, if they're dropped to 0 in round 1 and then their turn comes up later in round 1, they make their disadvantage death save at the end of that turn.

All the spell description is spelling out is that it happens at the end of their next turn, so they still get to act normally on that turn, and then make the save.

Totally agree with the first part. That was my mistake. They would indeed drop to 0 in round 1 and their next turn might be in that round, depending on where they and the foe were in the initiative order.

Not totally sure at the second part of your post. The wording of the spell doesn't say they make their next death save "AT" the end of their next turn. It says they don't make them until the end of their next turn.

Once the character reaches the end of their turn, their turn is over, so they can't act, even to make a death save. That's my read on it anyway, your milage may differ.

 

[MarkB]

Totally agree with the first part. That was my mistake. They would indeed drop to 0 in round 1 and their next turn might be in that round, depending on where they and the foe were in the initiative order.

Not totally sure at the second part of your post. The wording of the spell doesn't say they make their next death save "AT" the end of their next turn. It says they don't make them until the end of their next turn.

Once the character reaches the end of their turn, their turn is over, so they can't act, even to make a death save. That's my read on it anyway, your milage may differ.

Plenty of things trigger at the end of your turn, and making a saving throw is not any kind of action. I see no meaningful difference between "at" and "until" in this instance.

 

[sus323]

Plenty of things trigger at the end of your turn, and making a saving throw is not any kind of action. I see no meaningful difference between "at" and "until" in this instance.

Shrug. Like I said, your milage may differ. I always viewed making death saves as a more "active" thing but it is a bit of a gray area.

 

[TwoSix]

Yes, the lack of a real duration is strange. I suppose the spell isn't as bad as I thought, it just showed up at an opportune time. I simply felt that it kind of steps on death ward, since you can cast it as needed instead of guessing who might need an "exemption from dying" clause.

I certainly don't want to murder the PC's outright, but this was a moment where I suddenly felt the possibility of PC death was taken out back and beat to death with a rock.

Honestly, I think it would put the PC at more risk of actually dying, not less. Nothing changes the rule that every time damage is inflicted, a death save is failed. Not so bad against a large solo monster, but if you have several mooks, that PC is in some serious trouble.

Not to mention that every 3rd level slot used to cast the spell is a slot no longer available to revivify.

 

[sus323]

Honestly, I think it would put the PC at more risk of actually dying, not less. Nothing changes the rule that every time damage is inflicted, a death save is failed. Not so bad against a large solo monster, but if you have several mooks, that PC is in some serious trouble.

Not to mention that every 3rd level slot used to cast the spell is a slot no longer available to revivify.

So true. Especially since monsters (cough cough GMs) tend to ignore downed PCs.

 

[Zardnaar]

I like KP product. Their spells not so much. They're either crap or broken.

I liked my Midgard Players book but there's a reason I haven't bought Deep Magic.

 

[Distracted DM]

Being "still in the fight" while making Death Saves is extremely dangerous.

In your case, the spell turned out in the players' favor. However, it could have gone a much more lethal direction!

While the PC benefiting from "Never Surrender" doesn't suffer the Unconscious condition – which causes melee attacks made against it to be auto criticals (which count as 2 failed death saves) – the PC still suffers an auto death save when sustaining ANY damage

Damage at 0 Hit Points. If you take any damage while you have 0 hit points, you suffer a death saving throw failure. If the damage is from a critical hit, you suffer two failures instead. If the damage equals or exceeds your hit point maximum, you suffer instant death.

Good attack rolls on a claw/claw/bite, a couple of veterans (or other multiattacking monsters), a lucky crit and damaging terrain, the magic missile spell – all of those will KILL the character sustained by "Never Surrender."

It's a huge gamble.

Yeah I'd say this is the case- it lets you "break the rule" of being unconscious at 0hp but everything else is still in play... including failed death saves when taking damage.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Once word gets around that the PCs are using this spell, intelligent enemies will know to focus fire on anyone who "should" be dead, which will quickly accelerate them to actually being so.

It will be very easy to be action economied to death, since even a bunch of low level goblin archers can push someone with this spell on them over the edge.

 

[TwoSix]

The only thing I really see as a problem is the duration being instantaneous; it should definitely be a few rounds, maybe a minute at best. Not concentration, making it a concentration spell would make it pretty close to useless.

As it is now, it's essentially a higher level slot to give the caster some flexibility on initiative timing; good smart use might get you an extra player turn over simply casting Healing Word to get them up on your next turn.

 

[aco175]

It seems a bit like the 1/2orc power that drops them to 1hp when they would have been dropped to making death saves. This spells seem to give the player something to do if their PC would be knocked out of the fight. It tries to make a trade-off to make things more difficult, but the PC could just take a potion.