Cleave and Grapple...

RigaMortus

Explorer
Let's say I was a Monk w/ Cleave. I "karate chop" one opponent and take him down. I now get my cleave. Can the Cleave be a grapple (or even disarm/trip), or does it have to be the same "attack" as I did to drop the foe.

I realize it has to be with the same weapon, which is why I would be using my unarmed strike (had I dropped my opponent with a great sword, I could not grapple w/ a great sword). I was thinking that since my attack was with my hands, I could grapple with my hands for my Cleave.
 

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SRD said:
If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach.

Must be an attack. Can't Grapple or Disarm or Trip.
 
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As Hypersmurf is (correctly) want to argue, an unarmed strike is different to the 'melee touch attack' necessary for both the grapple and trip attempts (though I'm not sure you couldn't use a kama on the trip option though).

Disarm is less clear as that requires an opposed attack roll (with special modifiers for certain weapons).
 

RigaMortus said:
But Grapple, Disarm and Trip ARE attacks...
No, they're standard actions. They don't take the place of an attack action.

Just because they use an attack roll doesn't make them attacks.
 

Jdvn1 said:
No, they're standard actions. They don't take the place of an attack action.


No, they're not standard actions. They do take the place of a melee attack.

Check here: http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/CombatI.rtf

Do search on the word "Grapple," and pick the second occurence.

You'll notice that Grapple, Disarm, and Trip an Opponent all have the footnote 7, which states:

SRD said:
These attack forms substitute for a melee attack, not an action. As melee attacks, they can be used once in an attack or charge action, one or more times in a full attack action, or even as an attack of opportunity.

EDIT:

So, back to the original poster's question. Can you Disarm, Trip, or Grapple on a Cleave attempt when the original attack was made with an unarmed strike?

SRD said:
As a melee attack, you may attempt to disarm your opponent. If you do so with a weapon, you knock the opponent’s weapon out of his hands and to the ground. If you attempt the disarm while unarmed, you end up with the weapon in your hand.

Disarm = Yes, absolutely

SRD said:
Tripping with a Weapon: Some weapons can be used to make trip attacks. In this case, you make a melee touch attack with the weapon instead of an unarmed melee touch attack, and you don’t provoke an attack of opportunity.

SRD said:
Kama: ... You can use a kama to make trip attacks ...

Strike, Unarmed: ...

Scythe: A scythe can be used to make trip attacks ...

Trip = No, not strictly by RAW, because the Unarmed Strike is not a weapon which can be used to make trip attacks. You could both Trip and Disarm on a Cleave attempt if you were using a kama, however.

SRD said:
Step 2: Grab. You make a melee touch attack to grab the target.

Grapple = No; Grappling does not use any weapon, and therefore cannot be Cleaved to from an Unarmed Strike.

However, should you successfully begin a grapple with a creature and, when you do your unarmed damage to it, knock it down, you might gain a Cleave attempt with a Grapple. I'll leave deciding this as an exercise for our readers.
 
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As long as the attack that triggers the cleave was unarmed, I don't see why not. Cleave allows an additional melee attack, and a grapple is a melee attack.
 

punkorange said:
As long as the attack that triggers the cleave was unarmed, I don't see why not. Cleave allows an additional melee attack, and a grapple is a melee attack.

Grapple, however, is not a melee attack with an Unarmed Strike (which is required by the Cleave feat).

Jdyn said:
So you can Grapple as part of a Cleave?

See above. Sorry, started my edit before anyone had responded ... :)
 

you could just get improved grapple, then when you drop him, you could cleave with an unarmed strike and start a grapple as a free action.
 

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