D&D 5E Cleric Love Domain Adjustments

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
So there's lots of speculation that one of the reasons the UA was pulled was because as worded, the cleric love domain was problematic. Specifically around removing player agency and, well, just being worded as a bit creepy. So here's my take on how to adjust that.

Proposed:
Replace Save DC and attack roll modifiers from WIS to CHA.

Existing:
Love Domain Spells
Cleric Level
Spells
1st
ceremony, heroism
3rd
enthrall, warding bond
5th
beacon of hope, hypnotic pattern
7th
aura of purity, confusion
9th
greater restoration, hold monster

I really don't have much of an issue with this list. It can stay the same. Yes, there are spells like charm person there where it may sound creepy when tied to the domain of love, but those are general spells, and not core specific subclass features. I think that's a difference.

Existing
Emboldening Bond. Create a bond between two allies within 30ft, add d4 to attack rolls, ability checks, or saving throws once per turn lasting an hour. Recharge on a long rest or use a spell slot.

Proposed
While most players probably wouldn't have an issue gaining a +d4 to rolls, and it says willing creatures, there are other issues. Like not requiring concentration and not using a spell slot, which is just asking for 1 level dips for metagaming purposes. I'd replace with:

Emboldening Bond
Choose any two willing creatures that have a strong bond with each other. Examples include: committed couples, best friends or allies, or PC/pet bond. The two creatures must have an established bond with each other. As an action you can invoke the bond power that grants an inspiration die to both of the creatures. This inspiration die (which scales the same as a monk unarmed damage die) can be used as a reaction from the player with this bond, to reduce damage taken by the die roll, to be added to any ability or skill check or saving throw, or to increase their own attack roll. If within 30ft of their partner, they can use a reaction to grant their inspiration result to said partner. you can use this ability a number of times equal to your charisma modifier (minimum once) per long rest.

Existing
Channel Divinity: Impulsive Infatuation
IMO, the most poorly worded ability. Just screams "stalker" to me. Basically use channel divinity to force a creature to make a WIS saving throw or be charmed by you and is forced to attack a creature of your choice.

Proposed
Channel Divinity: Inspire partner
When invoking channel divinity to any bonded creature with you (partner, best friend, pet, basically anyone with an established bond with you that you care about each other), that partner, if willing, gains immunity to mind effecting statuses (charm, frighten, etc) for one minute. If within 30ft of you when you are the target of an attack, your bonded partner can use a reaction to impose disadvantage to one attack roll, if the attack is made before the start of your next turn.

Existing
Protective Bond
The two people in embolding bond can use reaction to grant resistance to all damage to the other creature. Lasts until the end of the current turn.

Since my proposal already includes a reaction, this is just an added feature to the existing ability.

Existing
Potent Spellcasting
Add your WIS modifier to damage of any cantrip

Proposed:
Add your CHA modifier to damage to any cantrip

Existing
Enduring Unity
Enduring bond has not range limit as long as on same plane. When partner is reduced to 0 hp, the partner gains the benefits for 1 min: advantage on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws, resistance to all damage, as an action they can touch their bonded partner to expend and roll any number of hit dice.

Proposed
I would keep this the same.
 
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cbwjm

Legend
I wouldn't change potent spellcasting, the love cleric is still a cleric and potent spellcasting should still be based on wisdom unless its spellcasting stat is changed over completely to charisma. While I can understand the desire to make it scale off charisma thematically, the ability potent spellcasting is mechanic, not thematic.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
I wouldn't change potent spellcasting, the love cleric is still a cleric and potent spellcasting should still be based on wisdom unless its spellcasting stat is changed over completely to charisma. While I can understand the desire to make it scale off charisma thematically, the ability potent spellcasting is mechanic, not thematic.

The first thing I changed was replace WIS with CHA on spell attacks and save DC
 



Eltab

Lord of the Hidden Layer
Compelled Duel ought to have a place here: Leave my friend alone and try to mess with me! Does this Cleric get heavy armor or medium armor?
 





Sacrosanct

Legend
Publisher
You're right flavor-wise, but game-wise we really don't need more CHA-based casters.

It should be based off of flavor and what makes sense, IMO. As a game designer myself, when you start designing classes based on some metagaming metric rather than what makes intuitive sense, you're going down a bad road.

"Well, we have this swashbuckler subclass, but we already have enough dex based classes, so we just have to make it an INT based one, because we don't have enough of those." Crazy talk. And it would cause confusion to most people who read the class and see a swashbuckler where DEX doesn't matter.
 



Hawk Diesel

Adventurer
It should be based off of flavor and what makes sense, IMO. As a game designer myself, when you start designing classes based on some metagaming metric rather than what makes intuitive sense, you're going down a bad road.

"Well, we have this swashbuckler subclass, but we already have enough dex based classes, so we just have to make it an INT based one, because we don't have enough of those." Crazy talk. And it would cause confusion to most people who read the class and see a swashbuckler where DEX doesn't matter.

I understand what you're saying, and I could see the argument going either way. But still what you have at its core is a cleric. They aren't utilizing the power of love through their own charisma or power of seduction. They are praying to a god of love to grant them a piece of their divine spark to manipulate the forces of love. Such gods or churches devoted to love gods may attract more attractive people, but love affects everyone regardless of their attractiveness or power of personality. For this reason, it seems as if Wisdom is still the most appropriate spellcasting stat. Love clerics don't embody love or attraction. They become vessels through which a god of love may act.

Additionally, wouldn't this open up a can of worms? Should the War domain use Strength as their primary spellcasting stat, or should Arcana clerics use Intelligence? It seems like a slippery precedent to set.
 

Harzel

Adventurer
Maybe change a different caster to something other than CHA?
EDIT: If it works for the flavor.

There are certainly good candidates. I've not heard a particularly compelling argument for why Sorcerers are CHA, and I'd have no trouble with Paladins going to WIS.
 

Zardnaar

Legend
There are certainly good candidates. I've not heard a particularly compelling argument for why Sorcerers are CHA, and I'd have no trouble with Paladins going to WIS.

MADs an issue with Paladin's unless you key aura off wisdom as well.
 
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Zardnaar

Legend
Good point. You could also link it to proficiency bonus (maybe 1/2 prof. bonus), or just make it a constant, or a number dependent on level.

That was the 3E Paladin.

I think it was designed with the assumption of rolled stats but stat arrays and the way editions handle stat boosts makes more than 1 or 2 seats a pain.

They recognised this with the hexblade for example.
 

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