cleric spontaneous casting HR

[Nifft]

We tried something similar, but found it was a bit too strong. The reason was simple: in the old rules, adding a new domain through Feat or Prestige Class wouldn't really help much. [...] I'm not saying extra Domains are commonplace. But, it's just an example of how something that was relatively harmless under the old rules suddenly becomes unbalanced.

This is true, and it's a reason to re-structure either each Domain spell list (to remove most Sor/Wiz spells, move the few that must remain to higher levels, and to replace them with mostly Cleric and a few Druid spells), or to revise the "bonus Domain" mechanic (perhaps, like a Spirit Shaman, each day you choose one or two Domain spells per spell-level, and you can spontaneously convert only into those chosen spells).

Hmm, I quite like that last one.

-- N

 

[reanjr]

IMHO it makes the clerics slightly better, not worse

It will always depend and the domain chosen of course, but having 2 spells per spell level which you can cast spontaneously is a very good advantage, even at the cost of one slot per spell level less and not spontaneously casting the healing spells. After a few levels, the bonus spells lost won't hurt that much.

A cleric with the Healing domain will be the clear favourite of any party and actually better that the core cleric spontaneous casting IMO. Almost every other domain has some winner spells that you'll always love having spontaneous, just check the lists and think about it!

That's why the cleric has to choose which of his domain powers he gets. It balances it with the standard cleric (mostly).

 

[mercucio]

IMC I use a similar idea, but nixed the cleric class completely and replaced it with the priest. Priests receive: d6 HD/level; 3/4 BAB; Poor Fort & Ref, Good Will, spells per day as druid, 2 skill points/level. They gain a bonus divine, metamagic, or turning feat at 6, 12, and 18th level.

Domains slots are still lost, and in place they can spontaneously cast any spell on their domain lists. Domain powers are still granted as normal, but see below. Priests receive a 3rd domain as bonus domain at 10th level

They lose the ability to universally rebuke/turn undead, replaced with a mechanic called Divine Channeling.

Divine channeling functions mechanically turn/rebuke, but what you can use it for varies, based on what domains you know. For instance selecting the Air, Earth, Fire, or Water domains allows you to rebuke/command creatures of the primary element and turn/destroy creatures of the opposed element. However you have to expend a daily use of divine channeling in order to do so. Selecting the Life and Sun, or Death and Undeath domains allows you the ability to use your divine channeling attempts to turn/rebuke undead. Divine channeling can also be used to power divine feats.

NOTE: Yes, this means priests are walking healing batteries. Which is kind of the point--they promote the ideals and dogma of their god, not heal every stupid noob in sight (except for those silly priests of the god of healing =).

- Mercucio

 

[ruleslawyer]

I tried the spontaneous domain casting thing for a while before I realized its major flaw: You're not reducing the cleric's power when you allow this; instead, you're screwing the other members of the party.

The reason for spontaneous healing, as Infinite Monkey said, is to allow clerics to heal without confining their RP function to being walking hospitals. Spontaneous healing means that clerics probably will expend a huge number of spell slots on healing anyway (assuming 1 cleric in a party of 4), but they'll have the option to use some non-healing spells.

IMHO, the big problem with the cleric is that the domains, rather than being a core component of the cleric's spell list, are add-on powerups. But, this isn't the fault of the domain system; it's the fault of the generic cleric spell list! Namely, that list is just too big and too good. As a result, designers are driven to add all the good arcane spells to domains (in order to avoid making domain lists redundant), and the domains don't really influence the cleric's power as much as do, say, righteous might and divine power.

My solution has been to drastically reduce the core cleric spell list, expand the domain lists, and allow clerics to access spells from all the domains available to their patron deities as their base spells prepared. Bonus domain spells, along with the restriction on using domain spells only in those slots, are eliminated. Access to an extra domain, via a prestige class or feat, for example, confers only the domain's special power.

IMC, the average deity grants four to six domains; those deities who grant fewer domains give better granted powers (which are no longer linked to domains).

I've attached my cleric spell lists, if you're interested.

 

[reanjr]

Radical new approach

Since all the good ideas for restructuring cleric domains (except those that are a bit overcomplicated or totally different than the core class is supposed to be) hinge on the whole healing thing, maybe the answer is this:

Remove the healing domain completely. Get rid of all the cure spells.

Everyone says that every cleric should be able to cure? Use it as a Turning Ability, like those divine feats from Defenders of the Faith.

You can work the details out on your own, but the spontaneous healing is just a bad idea for so many reasons.

 

[Nifft]

I tried the spontaneous domain casting thing for a while before I realized its major flaw: You're not reducing the cleric's power when you allow this; instead, you're screwing the other members of the party.

In my experience, Cleric players can do that no matter what kind of house rules you institute.

-- N

 

[Storyteller01]

IMC, clerics don't really lose much. Instead of memorizing spells, they have to roll a will save (DC: 10 + twice the spell level). Spell slots per day still apply. They can still turn undead, spontaneously heal, cast their domian spells without a save, etc, but don't become too reliant on their gods intervention. The save gives a player cleric roughly a 50% chance to cast their highest level spells (not accounting for their Wisdom bonus).


FFG published a class called a Faith Caster. They can spontaneously cast
any cleric spell, including healing, without memorizing them (spell slots per day and spell restrictions apply). Problem is, the gain poor attack bonuses, cannot turn undead, and use a d6 for Hit Die. They still gain domain spells and abilities.