5E Cleric vs Paladin: Concepts and Mechanical realisation

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Right, just like in 5e you can use your spell slots on nothing but Smites. And all the spells you prepare are Smite spells.
And “Detect” spells are no different from Divine Sense, Heroism is just your ally being inspired by you, etc.

I mean, I see more space in the game for a non-Spellcasting (but still magical) Paladin than I do for a spell-less Ranger, but even saying that, reflavoring spells as divine blessings and such is really easy.

But there definitely is a difference between magic and spells.
 

Coroc

Adventurer
Howso? Keep in mind that, if I'm being perfectly honest, I loathe spellcasting Paladins. Paladins are not, and should not ever be, "spellcasters" in my not-so-humble opinion. So...if your reasons the into the spells or the Smites that expend them (another mechanic I strongly dislike and which sounds not the least bit Paladinly to my ears), be prepared for that response.

So you're telling me that a mere pool of HP is more Paladin flavor than literally sacrificing your own vigor to heal others? Note that I am NOT saying that the 4e Paladin was mechanically stronger than the 5e Paladin is within each respective edition. It's pretty trivial to show that the 4e version was slightly mechanically flawed (hence the improvements in Divine Power), and likewise that the 5e Paladin is among the strongest non-full-caster classes in the game. But I specifically said that the 5e Paladin was "really good," as in mechanically very solid. But for me, the 5e Paladin is almost totally wedded to spellcasting, and I am utterly opposed to Paladins being mystic handjive performers. (Plus I REALLY hate it when designers turn important class features into elective spells; the Ranger is even worse for that than the Paladin, which is saying something.)
Nope this is something totally different. E.g. Paladin in 2e had spellcasting from 9th level up as an extra boon, not as a combat mechanic and only some healing stuff and protection buffs. But he had lay on hands from level 1 or so, fixed 2HP / level and some cure disease later on.

The idea here is that a paladin is so holy that a mere touch of his hands can heal people.
That is a very good RP concept, in fact it rocks. But people nowadays only see spell slots as smite charges.
This otoh is to reflect the paladins smite evil abilities, against utterly evil ,(not every evil robber or such, although nowadays it is sufficient to be enemy mob of the pally), entities a classic paladin should have extra powers.
The accumulation of this in 2e was a pally with a holy sword. This was a +5 weapon granting 50% magic resistance and a banishing circle surrounding the paladin when drawn and dispelling magic on a hit, which in 2e was enormously powerful.

Part of the lay on hands thing is also from Aragorn maybe, in fact some aspects of Aragorn in LOTR are more akin to a paladin than to a ranger. In the books, if I can remember correctly, there is something about the hands of the king that can heal.

I think that part of the criticism on todays paladin comes from the possibilities to play non archetypical non LG paladin types, so putting the paladin more into a with what whacks and sparkling effects does this class annihilate its enemies, rather than the fact that roleplaying a paladin is about roleplaying a saint.
 

Coroc

Adventurer
And “Detect” spells are no different from Divine Sense, Heroism is just your ally being inspired by you, etc.

I mean, I see more space in the game for a non-Spellcasting (but still magical) Paladin than I do for a spell-less Ranger, but even saying that, reflavoring spells as divine blessings and such is really easy.

But there definitely is a difference between magic and spells.
The funny thing about it is that detect evil now only works on really evil her than your evil aligned merchant, (which is a good thing in my opinion, at least former editions who had it differently should have a saving throw against paladins detect evil), but your smite now works against everyone.
 

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