Cleric Won't Heal?

[jgsugden]

I want to go downtown, but my friend told me he wouldn't drive me unless there was no other option. What do you all think? Selfish, right? I need to get downtown, and he wants me to spend my time looking for other options rather than just saying he'll drive me!

Yeah.

Clerics are not obligated to be your personal healing battery. They serve their Gods, not you. And, quite frankly, if you still have hps left, and they use their spells to do something else useful rather than healing you, they're likely serving the party better by doing that than by healing you. Whether you have 1 hp, or 100 hps, you are just as effective fighting. There is a reason why clerics have spells other than healing.

 

[Zardnaar]

Interesting. In our game we started without a cleric but our sorcerer took the Healer feat and we were fine. I've never seen a 5E game where recovering hit points was hard given the healer feat, cheap potions, short rests, and (if the casters cooperate) healing magic.

Remember, Bards, Druid, Paladins, Rangers, and (if you have Xanathar's) Divine Soul Sorcerer and Celestial Warlock, all get healing spells as well.

But more to the OP: I suppose trying to explain to the cleric that healing others before they go down keeps them in the fight more. If you wait until they go down, you have too likely of a case of "whack-a-mole" happening. Otherwise, a good cleric and use offense to help as well as defense--IME a proper blend makes for the best case unless you want to play a dedicated heal-bot type.

Healer feats really good,no one took it.

Cleric level 1 has 2 cure spells 1d8+4.

Healer feat 1d6+5 per person per short rest.

With 5 person party and two short rests that's 15 1d6+5.

Hence early statement about magical healing being bad.

Opportunity cost is also high. At low levels must be v.human and take one for the team.

And yeah the clerics opinion is in the kill stuff faster side of things.

 

[ph0rk]

Weird expectations about using ones actions to heal other people’s stupidity is why I don’t play classes like cleric or bard anymore.

Healing is inefficient in 5e, unless you teeter on the brink of a TPK, you’re better off pumping out damage. (Which might be why so many bards can’t really do that, but I digress).

 

[Al2O3]

If the cleric can spend actions and spell slots on healing in combat, then the risk of going down is probably not that great to begin with. Maybe a well-placed healing spell can be the difference between going down to 1 hp rather than 0 hp.

From my experience, there is no/little need to heal if the game stays within the expected number of encounters and rests. If the encounters become hard enough to frequently result in characters going down to 0 hp, then the incoming damage will outpace healing anyway.

All in all, a cleric not healing before characters hit 0 hp is probably just a sign that they know what they are doing and how healing works in practice in 5e. There extra incentive for that playstyle in the grave domain.

 

[Charlaquin]

I heard on maybe these boards before that the math of 5e makes it so healing is a bad choice for clerics unless someone goes down. People were saying that a cleric can do so much more than heal, like attack, spells, or even aid.

That’s correct, generally speaking. Most of the time, healing in combat is a suboptimal move because enemy damage generally outpaces healing, so by spending an action to heal someone, you’re effectively just using your turn to reduce the incoming damage to the character you’re healing, without contributing any damage yourself. There are situations where spending an action to heal can be worthwhile though, and one of them is when the character you’re healing is unconscious. Healing them even for a small amount will bring them back into the fight, thereby increasing the party’s total damage output. For these reasons, healing word is pretty much the best in-combat heal spell, and other healing spells are better used outside of combat.

That said, a player who refuses to heal in combat until one of their allies is unconscious is taking the heuristic too far. Yes, it’s generally more optimal to heal character after they’ve fallen unconscious or after the fight is over, but there are absolutely situations where healing a conscious ally mid-combat is the best call. I understand when players prefer not to heal conscious party members in combat, but I am highly suspicious of players who declare they will never do so.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Healer feats really good,no one took it.

Cleric level 1 has 2 cure spells 1d8+4.

Healer feat 1d6+5 per person per short rest.

With 5 person party and two short rests that's 15 1d6+5.

Hence early statement about magical healing being bad.

Opportunity cost is also high. At low levels must be v.human and take one for the team.

And yeah the clerics opinion is in the kill stuff faster side of things.

Shrug All I can say is in our main game that went to level 20, we didn't have a cleric or any healing caster at all in our party until level 4 when a new guy joined our group for a short while and wanted to play a cleric.

But anyway, healing at lower levels has always been limited in D&D IME. That is part of what makes them hard. At least in 5E with a short rest and spending a HD, you already have a lot more healing than you would in prior editions such as in AD&D.

So, with a 5-person party, assuming say (for an average) 3 d8 HD and 2 d10 HD, with +1 and +2 CON modifiers, respectively, that about 31-32 points of healing, roughly 5-6 hp per PC on the short rest just by spending HD. For the most part, about half your level 1 HP (or a bit more). By the time you've done a few battles, you might already be level 2. With an HP jump then, your survivability increases of course.

And as you said, the healer feat is really good and it is too bad no one could take it. Considering I can use it on myself as well as others, I never thought of it as taking one for the team personally. With the healer feat, you gain another 25-26 points of healing per long rest (or so), bringing the total up to over 30 points per PC per long rest roughly.

Toss in any healing potions, and there is a lot of healing IMO. I don't know your party make up, but there are no other healing-capable PCs? Like I said, the list is extensive depending on selection.

Anyway, I've digressed. The point is while you might think magical healing is bad (e.g. weak or low), it has always been the case IME until slightly higher levels are reached.

Here is a big, important question for your cleric: what happens if you go down? If they insist on being in the fight (so to say) they are putting themselves, and thus everyone else, at greater risk IME. In our games, the "healer" is the one PC who always gets first defensive magic items, etc. be we know that PC will keep the rest of us alive.

 

[Zardnaar]

Shrug All I can say is in our main game that went to level 20, we didn't have a cleric or any healing caster at all in our party until level 4 when a new guy joined our group for a short while and wanted to play a cleric.

But anyway, healing at lower levels has always been limited in D&D IME. That is part of what makes them hard. At least in 5E with a short rest and spending a HD, you already have a lot more healing than you would in prior editions such as in AD&D.

So, with a 5-person party, assuming say (for an average) 3 d8 HD and 2 d10 HD, with +1 and +2 CON modifiers, respectively, that about 31-32 points of healing, roughly 5-6 hp per PC on the short rest just by spending HD. For the most part, about half your level 1 HP (or a bit more). By the time you've done a few battles, you might already be level 2. With an HP jump then, your survivability increases of course.

And as you said, the healer feat is really good and it is too bad no one could take it. Considering I can use it on myself as well as others, I never thought of it as taking one for the team personally. With the healer feat, you gain another 25-26 points of healing per long rest (or so), bringing the total up to over 30 points per PC per long rest roughly.

Toss in any healing potions, and there is a lot of healing IMO. I don't know your party make up, but there are no other healing-capable PCs? Like I said, the list is extensive depending on selection.

Anyway, I've digressed. The point is while you might think magical healing is bad (e.g. weak or low), it has always been the case IME until slightly higher levels are reached.

Here is a big, important question for your cleric: what happens if you go down? If they insist on being in the fight (so to say) they are putting themselves, and thus everyone else, at greater risk IME. In our games, the "healer" is the one PC who always gets first defensive magic items, etc. be we know that PC will keep the rest of us alive.

Yeah she's hoping someone else would have taken some sort of healing ability.

She would heal in a pinch, healing word if available and someone's unconscious sure.

It's not an absolute what she's saying is don't throw your hit points away then expect healing.

At level 1 the 6-8 encounters go out the window. We had one although you could say 4 or 5 if you count traps and obstacles.

She doesn't like healing barbarians, anything else is fair game.

 

[Leatherhead]

I have been the cleric that had to choose between healing someone or saving the group from a TKP.

I chose the later, and the character died due to bleeding out. It was still the right decision.

 

[Zardnaar]

I have been the cleric that had to choose between healing someone or saving the group from a TKP.

I chose the later, and the character died due to bleeding out. It was still the right decision.

Not really the clerics fault in that situation.

If someone else invested a little bit in healing maybe it wouldn't have happened. Might be you bleeding out next.

If you have 5+ members something with some sort of healing is nice.

 

[aco175]

I see a lot of people talking about the idea of roles and if a cleric should hear or a fighter should fight. I know that 5e has less dependence on class role, but I always looked at classes as having roles and players mostly needing to play those roles. If I have 4 friends and one wants to play a fighter that is an archer. That just means that someone else needs to front-line fight. A cleric that refuses to heal would be just as bad in the group. Saving the in combat heal is ok to a point, but at some point the front-line fighter may feel like he needs to pull back and shoot since he is low on HP, leaving the others in the party to now be in the front line.