Clerical combat buffs?

[Lord Pendragon]

I ran some numbers on this and it turns out that righteous might is roughly similar to divine favor offensively and roughly similar to shield of faith defensively (assuming that you received the whole benefit from shield of faith and grants a few miscellaneous bonuses like reach and con bonus as well. (And if you have cleave, its offensive benefits are more significant since cleave gives you more benefit from reach). So, it's really a question of whether or not you can afford to spend the action. How soon are your battles usually over?

I'd say we usually run somewhere between 5-8 rounds. My PC doesn't have Cleave, though if the weapon damage die increases with size, the spell still looks attractive. A +4 strength that stacks with his gauntlets of ogre power seems very nice. Then again, Divine Favor can be quickened in the same slot... The loss of an action to buff is definitely a very heavy price for this character to pay. He often can't afford to wait and allow the foes to dictate who engages whom.

You could also cast+move+touch just like you can with any other touch spell. I'll admit that my cleric (who does have good concentration) has never had any luck with this spell at all--enemies always make the save, but it's got a lot of style points.

I suspect that will be the case with us as well, but I'm bound to try it now, I do like the idea of instant holy destruction.

It should do (1d8+10)x1.5 following the example of magic missile in the feat description which is (1d4+1) x 1.5

This could be a great spell, but would be something I'd probably only cast against non-intelligent foes. The devils we've been facing recently would probably just start attacking somebody else instead...

 

[Perinon]

Just a couple other notes after i brushed up on my channeling memory:

You *DO* get all the skills of your friendly trumpeting archon, so you should have somewhere between 12 and 15 ranks or so in concentration whenever your channeling...(also, 15 or so ranks in diplomacy, 12-15 in handle animal, 12-15 in some knowledge skill, spot, listen, sense motive, and move silently).. but anyway, with 12-15 ranks in concentration plus the con you probably have as a "tank-style" fighter, i'd think casting in combat while channeling would be fairly *easy*....

infinite teleport is *sooooo* cool... even for small uses like running up to your surrounded mage buddy and popping 100' away with him...

Share spell + beefy paladin mount + Rit Might = Mountgank Supreme. (don't forget this for *all* your self-buff spells we've been discussing... your mount should turn into an obscene combat monster... and then you have access to heal mount if he gets hurt) That can make up for a LOT of your difference with your "combat damage supreme" melee buddy. Of course, you pretty much have to be riding him for the share-spell range, but hey, your trumpet archon buddy *ALSO* has 12-15 ranks in ride! (when i borrowed your idea for my NPC, this was actually the thing i found most funfun... and i didn't bother to give him an alternate mount, just left him on a heavy warhorse... imagine if i could pull off a dire tiger or something as an alternate paladin mount and rightous might him! KITTY POUNCE!)

Finally, i remember your earlier discussion was over whether or not the DR would be considered SU, and i'm not nearly smurfy enough in my rules knowledge to be sure of this, but i'm surprised everything under special qualities wasn't SU. If you'd clarify exactly why you think the resistances aren't, that might help me if i ever use the NPC again or if i decide i want to try to use a character of this style myself. This would be a GREAT mechanic for using some kind of "ancestral spirit in the katana" in an oriental campaign a friend of mine has contemplated running, and i'd appreciate your thoughts.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

You *DO* get all the skills of your friendly trumpeting archon, so you should have somewhere between 12 and 15 ranks or so in concentration whenever your channeling...(also, 15 or so ranks in diplomacy, 12-15 in handle animal, 12-15 in some knowledge skill, spot, listen, sense motive, and move silently).. but anyway, with 12-15 ranks in concentration plus the con you probably have as a "tank-style" fighter, i'd think casting in combat while channeling would be fairly *easy*

This is technically true, but I haven't gotten around to statting out the skill ranks yet.

infinite teleport is *sooooo* cool... even for small uses like running up to your surrounded mage buddy and popping 100' away with him...

This actually isn't possible. An archon's greater teleport ability is only self+50 lbs of objects. But even so it's been immensely useful. Basically he can be almost anywhere he wants, when he wants. Just last session we came upon an evil spellcaster inside a room protected by magic wards and a thick iron grate. While the party was forced to deal with the grate, my pally teleported inside the room, right next to him. The next time he tried to cast a spell, I used a Smite on the AoO, and he lost the spell as well as took a serious hit.

Share spell + beefy paladin mount + Rit Might = Mountgank Supreme. (don't forget this for *all* your self-buff spells we've been discussing... your mount should turn into an obscene combat monster... and then you have access to heal mount if he gets hurt) That can make up for a LOT of your difference with your "combat damage supreme" melee buddy.

This is very true. Actually, my PC has a griffon mount and a Battlebridle from Magic of Faerun. He's a holy terror in the air. We've only actually had one encounter in the entire game where he got to go all out on the back of his mount. Our party was facing a goblin army. The spellcasters immobilized and blasted the mooks by the hundreds, while my PC flew overhead and strategically charged more powerful foes. Nothing, and I mean nothing, was capable of surviving the charge. But it's rare that he gets to do that, and I'm more than happy with that. It wouldn't do to outshine the fighter in all, most, or even a fair number of combats.

Finally, i remember your earlier discussion was over whether or not the DR would be considered SU, and i'm not nearly smurfy enough in my rules knowledge to be sure of this, but i'm surprised everything under special qualities wasn't SU. If you'd clarify exactly why you think the resistances aren't, that might help me if i ever use the NPC again or if i decide i want to try to use a character of this style myself. This would be a GREAT mechanic for using some kind of "ancestral spirit in the katana" in an oriental campaign a friend of mine has contemplated running, and i'd appreciate your thoughts.

The celestial's resistances aren't listed as (Sp), (Su), or (Ex) anywhere, and they are a general part of being a celestial. As such, without any evidence that they're (Sp) or (Su) (and my gut tells me that, unlisted, they're most likely (Ex) anyway), I have chosen to assume they aren't granted by Channeling. However, in my last post on the subject, someone provided me with a nice quote that stated that DR was either (Su) or (Ex), but if it's not listed, it can generally be considered (Su). That seemed strong support that the celestial's DR is (Su), regardless of what it's resistances may or may not be.

That was my reasoning, at least.

 

[Darmanicus]

Divine Sacrifice can be pretty good if you don't mind losing a few HP's yourself?

Quickened Divine Sacrifice + Righteous Might + Power Attack could really ruin someones day!

 

[Lord Pendragon]

Sorry it took so long to reply to this. I hadn't realized it had gotten another reply until I went to double-check the great suggestions I got here.

Divine Sacrifice can be pretty good if you don't mind losing a few HP's yourself?

I could stand to lose the hit points. My pally has been extremely lucky with his hit point rolls and has so many hit points it's practically criminal. The problem I have with Divine Sacrifice is that standard action. I only have, at most, a single round of buffing before each combat before I have to start drawing monsters' fire. With only one round to spend, Divine Sacrifice comes into direct conflict with Divine Favor. Comparing the two of them, Divine Favor just seems like the better spell...

Quickened Divine Sacrifice + Righteous Might + Power Attack could really ruin someones day!

Definitely. It might be fun to throw in a Divine Sacrifice or two, simply for variety. It's fun to try out new things. I don't usually Power Attack, though. We've been fighting a lot of things with horribly high ACs lately, so I need every bit of attack bonus I can muster. Some of the devils we've fought have given even the fighter a hard time, and he has an attack bonus at least 7 better than mine!

 

[boolean]

However, in my last post on the subject, someone provided me with a nice quote that stated that DR was either (Su) or (Ex), but if it's not listed, it can generally be considered (Su). That seemed strong support that the celestial's DR is (Su), regardless of what it's resistances may or may not be.

The FAQ has a rather extensive section on how to determine what types of DR are Ex or Su, and which parts go away in an anti-magic field.

Quoting in part:

Damage reduction is extraordinary unless the weapon
property that bypasses the damage reduction is “magic” (as in
damage reduction #/magic) or one of the four alignment
qualities (chaotic, evil, good, or lawful), in which case it is
supernatural.

A Trumpet Archon has DR 10/Good, so that's supernatural.

As far as energy resistances are concerned, the Monster Manual lists resistance to energy as Ex on p. 314.

 

[Shadeus]

Elder-Basilisk hit most of the great ones. For 3rd-level, you might consider prayer. It's a luck bonus to hit and damage. Recitation is just a great version of that with a higher bonus for those of your religion. It also gives a negative to the enemies, but that's only gravy (the bonus to hit is key).

The other one that was mentioned but it worth highlighting is heroes' feast. I never really looked at this spell until I got a level 11 cleric myself (just last session actually). It gives you:

- Bonus hit point (1d8 + 11)
- a 12 hour bless
- immunity to poison
- immunity to fear (which you have as a paladin anyway)

But what's cool about this spell is its for the whole party! The immunity to fear was huge for us because I can't tell you how many evil outsiders were trying to split the party using fear auras.

 

[Darmanicus]

Sorry it took so long to reply to this. I hadn't realized it had gotten another reply until I went to double-check the great suggestions I got here. I could stand to lose the hit points. My pally has been extremely lucky with his hit point rolls and has so many hit points it's practically criminal. The problem I have with Divine Sacrifice is that standard action. I only have, at most, a single round of buffing before each combat before I have to start drawing monsters' fire. With only one round to spend, Divine Sacrifice comes into direct conflict with Divine Favor. Comparing the two of them, Divine Favor just seems like the better spell...Definitely. It might be fun to throw in a Divine Sacrifice or two, simply for variety. It's fun to try out new things. I don't usually Power Attack, though. We've been fighting a lot of things with horribly high ACs lately, so I need every bit of attack bonus I can muster. Some of the devils we've fought have given even the fighter a hard time, and he has an attack bonus at least 7 better than mine!

I hear what you're saying about the high AC nasties, just a couple of weeks ago we fought a suped up armoured Beholder which I managed to hit once I think before dying right at the end

If your DM will allow it and the cash allows try getting a rod of quickening incorporated into your weapon. If you can somehow get access to True Strike 3/day that could seriously help out.

 

[Shadeus]

I hadn't realized your problems with high-AC devils. Well, that's easy for a cleric. Dispel evil is one spell you have access to now that would help. Will save or it goes back to its home plane. Banishment is far better and more reliable, but Dispel Evil is a good spell regardless.

This also lends itself to the prayer/recitation spells. It's a penalty for your enemies and a bonus for you to hit. Okay, it's only +3 to hit/dmg, but that's a 15% better chance you will hit. And will heroes' feast on, that's a 12-hour +1 morale bonus to hit. Then the bard song isn't as useful except to give that +1 morale bonus to damage as well (unless he's an 8th-level+ bard).

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Is this that astral deva channeler you talked about awhile back? I thought that was an incredibly cool idea... shamelessly stole it for an NPC in a campaign.

Could you provide a link or share the gist of it with us?