D&D General Clerics and Divine Ascension

[Ruin Explorer]

Re read it dude. It says exactly what I said. Here's the quote you deliberately ignored.

"Simply put, gods who start warring on the Prime are just begging to have every other power in the multiverse eliminate them"

I didn't deliberately ignore it - I thought that was you editorializing because of all the weird ellipses and so on. I guess that's true in the opinion of someone in Planescape, but it's certainly not a general rule, nor is there any evidence it's true in 5E cosmology generally.

 

[Maxperson]

I didn't deliberately ignore it - I thought that was you editorializing because of all the weird ellipses and so on. I guess that's true in the opinion of someone in Planescape, but it's certainly not a general rule, nor is there any evidence it's true in 5E cosmology generally.

I had that entire three paragraphs in quotes for a reason

While that is Planescape specific, it's right in line with the other quotes from the other editions for why gods won't interfere in the prime directly. If there wasn't a threat like that, the evil ones would be breaking it every day and thrice on Tuesday.

 

[gyor]

I don't see any deity ever allowing that. Non-good ones would kill the upstart before the servant could take them over, and good ones would limit the upstart to prevent it. Allowing it to happen in essence kills the god and I don't see gods as particularly suicidal.

It's already canon that Gods sometimes raises their servants to be Gods on occasion. Tyr made Torm a God, Bane made Fzoul a Demigod, Corellon Larethian raised almost the entire Seldarine and Dark Seldarine to Godhood from Primal Elves, ect..., AO made Mystra, Kelemour, Cyric, and others into Gods.

RL you have examples like Mormonism.

 

[Bohandas]

From the 3e Deities and Demigods, page 18, intercession by the D&D Pantheon side bar: "The gods of the D&D pantheon are keenly interested in events on the Material Plane, but they stay on the Outer Planes by general agreement..." and "...When the deities of the D&D pantheon intercede in mortal affairs, they often do so indirectly or through intermediaries."

Fharlangan and Vecna are exceptions.

Also from Deities & Demigods pg.18:
"The gods of the D&D pantheon are keenly interested in events on the Material Plane, but they stay on the Outer Planes by general agreement. The only two exceptions are Fharlanghn, who wanders the Material Plane at will, and Vecna, whose Material Plane citadel is kept secret even from his high-ranking clerics. When the deities of the D&D pantheon intercede in mortal affairs, they often do so indirectly or through intermediaries."

Despite that quote's use of the qualifier "only" IIRC the god Iuz also exists fully within the material plane

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Unwise]

In 4e this raised a really good discussion for RP. Most of the party was ascending to divine status, but the cleric would forever be a servant of a greater power. The dragon born sorcerer was literally becoming Io reborn, the "thief of legend" was becoming Prometheus, the fighter was an eternal king like King Arthur who gets reborn every time his people are in need. The cleric was "just some god's whipping boy" as the other players put it.

There is probably a reason that guys like Kas betray their gods and strike out on their own. Our cleric ended up causing a schism in the church (the god was kind of a douche) and started to feed off the power of those that prayed to his version of the religion, weakening his god, fracturing his religion and allowing him divine attributes like sending blessing to those that prayed to his sect. There was a push toward reunifying the church, which, if successful, would blend the cleric to their god, just like OP suggested.

 

[Bohandas]

I don't see any deity ever allowing that. Non-good ones would kill the upstart before the servant could take them over, and good ones would limit the upstart to prevent it. Allowing it to happen in essence kills the god and I don't see gods as particularly suicidal.

I think what was meant was that they basically become an appendage of their deity. This seems a reasonable extrapolation from the lore; if it's possible for a devoted creature to become an avatar of a deity through concentrated divine action (as in the case of proxies) then it may be possible for a creature to become an aspect via the less direct divine attention

 

[Maxperson]

I think what was meant was that they basically become an appendage of their deity. This seems a reasonable extrapolation from the lore; if it's possible for a devoted creature to become an avatar of a deity through concentrated divine action (as in the case of proxies) then it may be possible for a creature to become an aspect via the less direct divine attention

I'm not so sure of that. He very clearly says that the players character will dictate the behavior of the god. That tells me that the god essentially dies and is replaced by the cleric. Now, if the cleric is simply absorbed into the god with no adverse effects on the god's personality, that I could see.