Clerics Hurting to Heal

[phloog]

After running my first 4E game a while back, one of the players found one bit not to his liking....as a cleric (Essentials: Sun), he had abilities to heal others, but it seemed like a lot of his powers keyed off an attack - not simply an EFFECT that happens, but truly dependent upon him whacking someone else to heal a friend. He stated, and I agree, that it seems a little goofy.

I think I get the INTENT - perhaps they were trying to fix a "No one wants to be a cleric" issue by allowing the cleric to heal while still in there doing damage and getting the traditional (weapon-based) glory.

But are there powers out there that let you be a bit more like the traditional D&D cleric...or more accurately, let you heal a friend without having to make an attack role against someone else? I would like to see if I could make a build, even if drawn from non-Essentials books, that has lots of healing/status/buff options that aren't dependent on being in the fray....I know, 4E is all about fight fight fight everyone gets to do damage, but hopefully there's a way to get a more traditional heal/buff cleric.

 

[mudlock]

Do warpriest not get healing word? Because I thought they did.

But yes, in Divine Power (which means you'll need PHB1 as well) you'll find the Pacifist Cleric, which sounds like just what you're looking for.

 

[Dausuul]

Astral Seal from "Divine Power" is a highly effective, non-damaging at-will debuff... although it requires an ally to score a hit in order to get the healing boost. Otherwise, all the at-will cleric attacks appear to inflict damage.

If you have access to PHB2, he could go hybrid shaman and take advantage of powers like Spirit Infusion and Claws of the Eagle, which give bonus attacks to allies, warlord-style.

 

[fba827]

think of the utility powers for healing without conditions (i.e. not needing to hit).

The encounter powers that are hit = healing are like the extra little bonus.

but, yeah, divine power (as others have said) have an entire class feature set built around not being a damage dealer. even if not taking that feature set, some of those powers can be picked.

Alternatively, look at the heal skill. You could use your standard action to make a heal check (DC 15) to get your ally to use their second wind. Of course, each ally can only (usually) use one second wind per encounter, but it is an option none the less.

 

[OnlineDM]

I'm with [MENTION=95211]mudlock[/MENTION] - it sounds like your player may have missed the very, very important class feature of Healing Word. A Sun Warpriest twice per battle may spend a minor action to let himself or an ally within 5 squares spend a healing surge and gain an additional 1d6 hit points (plus 2 more hit points to himself or an ally). THAT is the 4e Cleric's primary healing ability.

The healing that comes from an encounter power on a hit is a nice bonus, but the Cleric's main healing comes from Healing Word. As they level up, they'll be able to add utility powers like Cure Light Wounds and similar things to get even more healing that has nothing to do with hitting anybody.

 

[phloog]

We didn't miss HW, but it's usable at most 2x/encounter. That's one issue, but I think the bigger issue is just that we don't dig the flavor of the 'hit to harms', and with Essentials you have limited choices.

I'll try to look into the others Thanks

 

[Prestidigitalis]

If you think you might ever get to epic level, check out the Saint Epic Destiny, especially the level 24 ability. All of those saves granted by the Sun Domain at-will suddently allow spending a healing surge if adjacent...

I guess the main question is, can you use the attack at-wills without actually attacking anyone? Has that ever been clarified?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Honestly, one of my biggest beefs with almost every leader class is this wacky mechanical notion of "I hit an enemy, and everyone feels better!" Warpriests are big offenders.

But are there powers out there that let you be a bit more like the traditional D&D cleric...or more accurately, let you heal a friend without having to make an attack role against someone else? I would like to see if I could make a build, even if drawn from non-Essentials books, that has lots of healing/status/buff options that aren't dependent on being in the fray....I know, 4E is all about fight fight fight everyone gets to do damage, but hopefully there's a way to get a more traditional heal/buff cleric.

Here's what I would do.

Take those attack-and-"effect-on-a-hit" powers. Split them into two.

The effect is a minor action. You pass it out to an ally. If it keys off of a hit, the ally needs to make a save to get the benefit.

The other thing -- the attack -- is a standard action.

You could go with a pacifist cleric, instead, for a better rules-notion of how to do this, but if you make the bonuses a minor action to hand out, all it does is interfere with their Healing Word usage, so that the round is essentially a choice between healing someone, or tossing out a bonus.

 

[cignus_pfaccari]

We didn't miss HW, but it's usable at most 2x/encounter. That's one issue, but I think the bigger issue is just that we don't dig the flavor of the 'hit to harms', and with Essentials you have limited choices.

If your party needs more healing, you'll want to encourage them to stock up on potions. They're not terribly expensive once you're up to mid-tier. At low levels, we made sure and carry them, even when my cleric was smacking people with his nice 2w encounter attack that allowed use of a healing surge.

Personally, I like the flavor of beating the snot out of my enemies at the same time as aiding my allies. I will freely admit not understanding why someone would have an issue with that. But that's a preference thing.

Your friend might want to look into the regular PHB laser cleric, or the shielding cleric from Divine Power; that build is a pacifist and just throws out debuffs in its attacks rather than hitting people (some of which are fairly rude). Neither actually does melee.

If you think you might ever get to epic level, check out the Saint Epic Destiny, especially the level 24 ability. All of those saves granted by the Sun Domain at-will suddently allow spending a healing surge if adjacent...

...

...

Oh dear lord that's awesome. I completely missed that synergy.

Kind of a pity we'll be ending that game soon and I'll be running Shadowrun. But, hey.

Brad

 

[666Sinner666]

This is all from my experience playing a traditional 4e laser cleric from level 1 to 16 and being the only healer in a 6 man party that was striker heavy, aka 4. I will be honest and say that playing as the only healer in a group sucks because if you make choices that increase other things like your damage output then your party suffers from not having that extra healing. It is quite frankly a rather boring role.

A couple of things you may want to suggest to your Warpriest and the party in general:

1.) The cleric should only use HW on a character AFTER they have second winded.
2.) Everyone should consider picking up Cloak of the Walking Wounded as their neck items.
3.) If the cleric wants to add potency to his HW's he can center his wishlist around items that added to the HP he restores. There are tons of them. Just make sure he checks the bonus type so they stack.
4.) Create Potion and Comrades Succor should be rituals that SOMEONE in the party has, if not the cleric.
5.) MC'ing into another leader class with a healing power is a good idea as well. Whether its the Warpriest or someone else.
6.) The feat Restful Healing that maximizes out of combat healing is good too.
7.) Channel divinity feats like Amoths Grace add more per encounters heals as well.
8.) Battle Standard of Healing. +1HP is better than none.
9.) Humans really do well as clerics as the extra feat and at will go a long way for clerics.

Thats just my .02 though. Otherwise retooling to a pacifist or laser cleric as said above are his only options.

P.S. Pacifist's are boring as hell to play as you really feel like your not contributing to combat in a very meaningful, aka adding damage.