Clerics with no gods

[ForceUser]

I'm not saying that there is no structure to my spirituality, just that spirituality does not necessarily equate with gods or superior beings besides ourselves. I'm arguing that a cleric can be godless, not that a cleric can exist with no structure to his beliefs.

Then we may be arguing the same point. The definition of "god" may be inhibiting communication. By "god," I mean any force or power in the universe greater than mortal humans, be it nature, ancestors, gods, The Force (tm), whatever. Something higher that humans aspire to understand, follow, or otherwise commune with.

 

[Kesh]

Then we may be arguing the same point. The definition of "god" may be inhibiting communication. By "god," I mean any force or power in the universe greater than mortal humans, be it nature, ancestors, gods, The Force (tm), whatever. Something higher that humans aspire to understand, follow, or otherwise commune with.

I'd say that's the case, then. Your definition of "god" is a lot more broad than most people use. I'd say the folks arguing for clerics without gods are speaking of gods in the more anthropomorphic sense, of human-like beings or objects/places/forces with human characteristics.

There are a number of real-world religions and philosophies that exist without specific dieties, or even forces that guide their lives. I think folks arguing for "godless" clerics are looking to these for inspiration. That's what's meant by a cleric who follows no god, but follows a belief: "balance" is not a true being or force in that sense, but a path that the cleric follows in his or her spiritual life.

 

[Turjan]

Give me an example, then, of a spiritual person who has no system of belief. What is his spirituality based upon? What are his beliefs? In what ways is he spiritual? What philosophy does his morality derive from? Because I can't see it.

Just look at the Daodejing or other Chinese philosophies. Or take Jainism, where living beings are gods, but there's no god in D&D sense involved. I'll leave it at that, because we don't want to discuss RL religions. These are just examples for existing belief systems with deep spirituality but without gods in our sense.

 

[ForceUser]

Just look at the Daodejing or other Chinese philosophies. Or take Jainism, where living beings are gods, but there's no god in D&D sense involved. I'll leave it at that, because we don't want to discuss RL religions. These are just examples for existing belief systems with deep spirituality but without gods in our sense.

Taoism is a good example. And with a short, sharp crack across the spiritual noggin, I yield the point. Or, to put it another way, saizhan.

I'm not young enough to know everything.
-J. M. Barrie