D&D 5E Climbing a tower rules 5e

[billd91]

I don't claim that my judgment is privileged. I'm not accusing people of "breaking rules" because the DM can't actually break rules. But there is no justification in the rules for length of climb calling for a Strength (Athletics) check. Claims to the contrary are incorrect in my view.

Well, there is the example on DMG 242 in the section on Success at a Cost that refers to a character making an "arduous climb" up a cliff (apparently even while using a rope). And since arduous means that the task required a great deal of effort or was strenuous, I think there's ample reason to conclude that a tiring climb could qualify.

I mean, honestly, the examples given in the rules aren't exclusive and shouldn't be treated as such. And if the fact that making the PCs roll for this with the potential consequence of relatively weak and non-athletic characters having to risk significant damage from a fall (by blowing the check by 5 or more) or wait until another PC makes their way through the building to open a door for them, I'm quite content with that. Then the group may have to weigh the consequences of the fall vs the risk of facing defenders inside the building at reduced strength. And that's great - that's what adventurous choices are all about.

 

[iserith]

Well, there is the example on DMG 242 in the section on Success at a Cost that refers to a character making an "arduous climb" up a cliff (apparently even while using a rope). And since arduous means that the task required a great deal of effort or was strenuous, I think there's ample reason to conclude that a tiring climb could qualify.

I mean, honestly, the examples given in the rules aren't exclusive and shouldn't be treated as such. And if the fact that making the PCs roll for this with the potential consequence of relatively weak and non-athletic characters having to risk significant damage from a fall (by blowing the check by 5 or more) or wait until another PC makes their way through the building to open a door for them, I'm quite content with that. Then the group may have to weigh the consequences of the fall vs the risk of facing defenders inside the building at reduced strength. And that's great - that's what adventurous choices are all about.

The nature of the difficult situations that call for a Strength (Athletics) check are spelled out in rules. "Arduous" must be interpreted in context, not simply googling the definition of the word itself.

 

[jasper]

No, most would succeed.

From experience, we did exactly that in the Army, and every single one of us succeeded. As has every other soldier, ever.

We were all reasonably healthy adult males (it was a male only platoon) aged 18-30.

And our rope didnt have knots.

The out of shape fatties struggled of course. But presuming an average health and strength, all you are doing is doing a single press-up, locking the rope over your feet (where you can rest without tiring yourself) and repeat.

If you can do a single press-up, you can climb a rope. If you cant do a single press-up, you're either morbidly obese, or have a Strength of 5 or less (or both)

Yes but.... You have Angry Ugly Drill instructors yelling at you to motivate you. PCs not so much.

 

[billd91]

The nature of the difficult situations that call for a Strength (Athletics) check are spelled out in rules. "Arduous" must be interpreted in context, not simply googling the definition of the word itself.

Shifting the goal posts.

 

[iserith]

Shifting the goal posts.

I don't see how I could be more consistent on my position. The rules, taken as a whole, both specific and general, say what they say: The DM decides if there's an ability check to resolve any given task by establishing an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure. Those are the general rules. The specific rules are that, when it comes to climbing, there are only certain difficult situations that make the outcome uncertain enough to warrant a Strength (Athletics) check. These are outlined in Chapters 7 and 8. If those difficult situations are not present, then climbing is just movement.

Happy to see people reading DMG page 242 though.

 

[Flamestrike]

Again, reasonably healthy and someone that is undergoing military training to climb a 30 foot rope (not 80 foot)

There is absolutely no difference climbing a 30' rope to climbing a 200' rope.

You pull yourself up using your arms (anyone who can lift their own body-weight can do this). Its a press-up. You then stand on the knots (or, if unknotted, you just loop the rope around your feet and lock in).

You can just stay there all day standing on the knot, or with the rope locked onto your feet if you want and rest your arms. All the weight is now on your legs, and they're kind of used to that.

When you're ready to go again, you just repeat.

Look:

There is a huge difference between climbing 20 feet and 80 feet.

No, there is not.

And talking about what people undergoing military training can do, as opposed to average people, is not talking about the 10 strength commoners. It is talking about the 14 strength with proficiency in athletics PC.

Hang on. Are you saying that 2 weeks into basic training I (and the other 60 blokes around me) all had a Strength of 14+ and proficiency in Athletics?

That's laughable.

Are you saying those girls in the video above had both as well? What about other school kids who do it regularly in gym class?

o down to the local Starbucks. Attach a knotted rope to the 80 foot wall outside. Hand the first 100 customers a drink and a 50 lbs pack of gear and tell them to climb that wall.

Yeah because morbidly obese and chronically unfit people who cant do a single pull-up (they cant lift their own body weight off the ground) will always fail.

If you can lift your own body weight for a single pull-up, you can climb a rope.

The rules reflect this. You have a lifting capacity of Strength x 30. An unfit (Strength 7) overweight (220lbs+) person cant climb a rope, because they cant lift their own weight off the ground.

A Strength 8, 150lb Wizard, with 50lbs of gear can pull himself off the ground (and over pit ledges and so forth).

Just check your PCs lifting capacity and compare it to the the weight of himself and his gear. If he can lift that off the ground, he can do a pull-up and he can climb a rope.

And your carrying capacity is only 15 times your strength

Its not carrying capacity we care about, its lifting capacity (which is Strength x 30).

A Strength 10 PC can lift off the ground (i.e. he can do a press up) 300 lbs. As long as he (and his gear) is less than this figure, he can lift himself off the ground, and climb a rope.

He does a press up. He stands on the knot (or locks off using his feet). He rests if he needs to. He repeats the process.

Maybe you're particularly heavy and/or weak, but a person of average strength, health and weight can do a pull-up.

Around 8 in a row in fact, with stronger men able to do a lot more:

Men should be able to perform at least 8 pull-ups, and 13-17 reps is considered fit and strong. And women should be able to perform between 1-3 pull-ups, and 5-9 reps is considered fit and strong.

How Many Pull Ups Should I Be Able To Do? | John Sifferman

How many pull ups should you be able to do? And how many pull ups is good? This post will show how you stack up and give you a good goal to aim for.

physicalliving.com

You do a few pull ups. You stop and rest your arms (standing on the rope, with your feet locked in), then you do a few more. A person of average strength should be able to do this (resting as needed) and climb a 60' rope with ease.

 

[Flamestrike]

The DM decides if there's an ability check to resolve any given task by establishing an uncertain outcome and a meaningful consequence for failure.

The rules for climbing state that a DM might require a check only if climbing a slippery vertical surface or one with no handholds.

Which a knotted rope, is not.

 

[iserith]

The rules for climbing state that a DM might require a check only if climbing a slippery vertical surface or one with no handholds.

Which a knotted rope, is not.

Right. Consider a pit covered in grease or a glass wall. These are what the climbing rules envision as the difficult situations that might call for a Strength (Athletics) check. Those, plus the ones noted in Chapter 7 under Strength (Athletics), are of a kind that is different than the distance of the climb itself. But of course in this example we're dealing with a knotted rope which is neither slippery (at least not as established) nor does it lack handholds, plus none of the other situations in the environment are present. So, no roll.

 

[Flamestrike]

Right. Consider a pit covered in grease or a glass wall. These are what the climbing rules envision as the difficult situations that might call for a Strength (Athletics) check.

A sheer glass wall simply cant be climbed. That's not just slippery, that's impossible.

Barring having those Mission Impossible suction cup thingies.

 

[Flamestrike]

PC: Ill go for a leisurely swim in the pool.
DM: Make me a DC 5 Athletic check to swim or you drown.
PC: What?

You dont need Athletics checks to lift something you can lift, or swim somewhere you can swim, or to do routine things like climbing a tree or a rope or a ladder.

If you're trying to swim in rapids, or climbing a crumbling rock wall with few handholds, you make a check.