Cloak of Invisibility: Best item in the game?

[GiMiK1214]

I agree with the OP that in the RAW this works. There are 4 types of attacks. Ranged, Melee, Close and Area. I believe the intent of the item was for All four to break the invisibility, and things like auras and ongoing damage to not break it.

Of course when my players reach that point if it hasn't been corrected that is how I will run it.

 

[occam]

That's all Orcus needs to do to defeat any attack, though. It's not a counter to Invisi-Ranger, it's a house rule that prevents him from ever dieing to any attack at all. Orcus has no ability to summon any creatures. There are creatures that have the ability to summon allies (Pit Fiends, for example), and Orcus is not one of them.

I wasn't referring to conjuring minions from thin air, merely that Orcus won't be encountered in some random dungeon room, or wandering alone through the woods; he's going to have a retinue.

And the mob of minions is a specific (and moreover, realistic within the game) counter to this tactic, which depends on never being hit. While a tribe of kobolds won't have much direct impact on a 30th-level PC, a single hit from one will render him visible, and thus dead in this situation.

The uber-tactic is easily defeatable with halfway-decent encounter design. It's still cool impressive, and will make for the kernel of legends when the PC ascends to become the Demigod of Stealth, but not utterly broken.

 

[2eBladeSinger]

Zurai has some serious ownage in the thread, it's very entertaining to read. The This-would-never-happen-to-Orcus-in-my-game camp is missing the point. It's about RAW and about a broken item, and using the RAW to demonstrate how the item is broken. It's well done. Invisiranger (IR) needs a better name, however.

 

[Regicide]

By 30 PCs are supposed to have the heads of "many" demonlords on their walls. *shrug* It's 4E.

 

[theNater]

There's no problem with the Cloak of Invisibility.

If something's too powerful, it's the Demigod's Divine Regeneration power.

Invisiranger has 170 hit points. Orcus can beat through that by being within 20 squares of Invisiranger for 17 out of the 25 rounds. It goes faster once he gets bloodied, and even faster if he can catch Invisiranger in his Necrotic Burst a few times. Assuming Orcus succeeds on his perception checks half the time, he'll easily do 170 points of damage to Invisiranger before he goes down.

Removing the Invisibility effect doesn't greatly increase the damage Orcus can normally do. Certainly not enough to worry somebody regenerating 30 hit points a round. The only real advantage Orcus has on a Demigod he can see over Invisiranger is his Touch of Death. It's a big advantage, sure, but the Cloak of Invisibility has removed one power, while Divine Regeneration has removed all of the others.

I think you've found an awesome synergy. You've picked up two epic powers that each make somebody very hard to kill and made somebody who is nearly impossible to kill. Well done!

 

[Zurai]

Your assumption is ill-placed. Orcus won't make his Perception check anywhere near half the time. Actually, this is the matrix of possible methods for Orcus succeeding on the check:

I-R's Roll		Orcus's Roll
1			15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20
2			16, 17, 18, 19, 20
3			17, 18, 19, 20
4			18, 19, 20
5			19, 20
6			20

That's just over a 5% chance if I did the math correctly (which I may well not have; that's more advanced statistical analysis than I feel like doing at 1 AM). With a 5% chance to know Invisi-Ranger's direction (not pinpoint his location - it is impossible for Orcus to do that), there are, on average, 2 rounds in the fight where Orcus has a decent idea where Invisi-Ranger even is - round 1 where I-R goes invisible, and round X where he rolls well and I-R rolls poorly.

Thus, yes, removing the Invisibility does greatly increase the damage Orcus can normally do, considering he doesn't normally do any damage at all!

 

[Jhulae]

In 4E, you do not lose Invisible status except under the circumstances listed in the power. .

Huh.. looking through the PHB, it clearly states in the Wizard Invisibility spells (both regular and greater) that invisibility ends by attacking.. How would the cloak be any different?

The only difference I can see with the cloak and the Invisibility spells is that the cloak doesn't require any actions to sustain.

 

[Zurai]

Huh.. looking through the PHB, it clearly states in the Wizard Invisibility spells (both regular and greater) that invisibility ends by attacking.. How would the cloak be any different?

The only difference I can see with the cloak and the Invisibility spells is that the cloak doesn't require any actions to sustain.

Look up the definition of Invisibility. It's on page 281, IIRC. There are no end clauses. You can remain invisible indefinitely if whatever granted you the invisibility doesn't say otherwise.

The Wizard's invisibility spells are actually just about the only ones that do drop on attack. Most drop after movement or on the end of your next turn.

 

[Liryel]

Look up the definition of Invisibility. It's on page 281, IIRC. There are no end clauses. You can remain invisible indefinitely if whatever granted you the invisibility doesn't say otherwise.

The Wizard's invisibility spells are actually just about the only ones that do drop on attack. Most drop after movement or on the end of your next turn.

Inivisiblity on page 281 states:
*You can't be seen by normal forms of vision
*You have combat advantage against any enemy that can't see you.
*You don't provoke opportunity attacks from enemies that can't see you.

What in that tells you what will an will not break invisibility?

 

[Jhulae]

Other than Wizard's spells and the cloak, what else provides invisibility?

I don't know.. I really think it's fairly obvious that it's treated like the invisibility spell except that it's an item and therefore usable by anybody (not just the wizard) and doesn't require any concentration to maintain.

I personally think you might be looking too hard at the Invisibility section on page 281 while totally disassociating it from the spells that provide it.

I could be wrong, though, and it'd be nice to see a FAQ clear it up.