Cloak of the Walking Wounded

[Solvarn]

Re: Cheese

Wow, some strong reactions today.

Anyway, per the rules you could put the amulet on, then the cloak, then take the necklace off to do that, if the DM allowed it.

I would allow it in my game (if I had one, currently playing in two right now) for a few reasons:

Must have a hand free.

Minor action to remove the amulet.

Standard action to second wind.

Now at this point, you are stuck with the bonus from the cloak, even if you spend the minor action to put the amulet back on, because then the amulet becomes the second item that you put on. To gain benefit from the amulet again, you need to spend another action minor action (with one hand free) to take the cloak off and then a minor action to put it back on.

So right now, in order to have the property of the amulet, get the property of the cloak, and then get the property of the amulet again, you have spent 3 minor actions. The second wind would be a standard action.

First of all, there are better items for you than a cloak of the walking wounded. You are probably wearing one of those better items as an amulet (amulet of the talon?). Spending healing surges without bonuses is a really suboptimal choice. There are times when second winding makes sense for almost every class (more often as a dwarf), but spending an additional surge with no benefit is definitely not as efficient as getting a bonus during each surge (whether it is bonus healing from your leader or the defense bonus itself). Also, you are not Con based as a rogue, so each surge needs to count.

Secondly, if you are going with two neck items, you are wasting treasure you should be using for other items that improve your role (striker).

Now I find myself curious as to why you feel like you need to have such a high second wind. Ideally, you shouldn't be taking as much punishment. Who is your defender? Are you playing your rogue the right way? Being sneaky, taking on lone targets, avoiding situations where you are getting clobbered? I'd be more interested to hear more about your party dynamic and how often you are being damaged games to give better advice.

 

[Ryujin]

In my campaign you'd be burning a Standard each, to remove and replace the amulet, while provoking an OA and effectively unarmed.

 

[Saeviomagy]

I'd have to say that removing and equipping an item is going to be more than a minor action's worth. That said, taking specific actions to prevent this as though it's some kind of 'abuse' is being more than a little silly: it lets you spend an extra surge with no bonus at the cost of multiple actions. It's just not a good tactic.

 

[dvvega]

My personal opinion is that putting on/removing an item is a standard action since equipping/stowing a shield is a standard action.

Why do I think this? Because shields are a slot item as well (Arms in this case). So it would make sense that other slot items are the same - and this action is the closest to equipping magic items. In addition, the only "magic items" that seem to be a minor action to equip are weapons (which are sheathed, not clasped around your neck).

Dropping/Picking Up/Retrieving an item is a minor action.

With the "first item put on" rule from PHB that makes your little sequence not very practical anymore.

I would read that the way the rules seem to be written is to force you to remove slot items in the order they were put on - last to first. This would obviously make it impractical to do these kinds of "creative" things.

And if your DM wants to be a right pain he can rule that if you remove the amulet, the cloak does not work any because it was not the "first" item put onto that slot. And then if you put the amulet back on it will work again.

So yes I think that I would rule that you must remove the cloak then remove the amulet then put the cloak on - like a stack of boxes.

Even if you want to argue equipping the items is a minor action, you still need to remove them in order IMHO.

D

 

[Initiate]

Must have a hand free.

Minor action to remove the amulet.

Standard action to second wind.

I would allow it using something like this. Free hand, minor to remove, standard to second wind provoking attacks of opportunity.

Obviously the actions required would change depending on the items being swapped. It takes longer to switch arm or waist slot items then most neck slot items, etc.

 

[Mad Hamish]

Leaving aside the ordering of items (and in this case I don't see it making a big difference because neck items mostly seem unlikely to interfere too much with the ability to access each other, different story for gloves and I'd say you can't wear 2 pairs of boots at all - although my character did manage to change boots during a long fall recently)
the big issue is what type of action it is to don and remove items.
I suspect that's really going to have to stay as a DM call.
In most cases I'd think that a move action would be closer than a minor action but an Ioun stone might be a minor to activate and a standard to catch it, you aren't changing armour in combat and changing boots during combat would be at the least a standard action.

I'd say check with you GM whether he'll allow it and what action types it takes before you try it.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Pre Battle:
Put on "Cloak of Walking Wounded", then put on main neck slot item "Amulet".
The last neck slot item put on is the one that will operate.

But how about this:

When wounded and need healing.

Minor Action: rogue attack like Low Slash
Free Action: drop hand x.bow
Minor Action: remove neck slot item with off hand.
Standard Action: 2nd wind (2 healing surges).

Thereby gaining the use of the Cloak.

Next round:
Minor Action: Put amulet on.
Minor Action: Pick up x.bow

I'd laugh hysterically saying "You burned 2 surges without any bonuses on them and took a whole turn to do it?!".

I'd allow it simply because it is such a poor use of resources (especially for those strikers hehhehhehheh)

 

[BobTheNob]

Sounds like no one believes in rewarding creativity, just a bland use of the rules.

Its not that at all. There is nothing I love better than when players come up with creative solutions. In fact, as a DM i get a giddy thrill when my players come up with good solutions, and I love to reward them for it.

I reward creative Role playing, not creative rule playing

This is just a bag of rats.

 

[Wik]

Sounds like no one believes in rewarding creativity, just a bland use of the rules.

Sorry, but that's not "creative". That's using the rules to bypass an effect and effectively have two slots in one place, and using whichever slot you prefer. Whether or not it's effective rules as written, what it winds up being is "My character wears two cloaks!" and you using the rules to get a mechanical effect.

There's no role-playing creativity here. It's essentially exploiting the rules (which are not actual rules of the game here, but your misreadings of them - but you can reverse engineer for a similar effect) in such a way that no character in a game would really do it. It is, as said above, nothing else than a "bag of rats".

It could be creative, if you want to look at it that way, but it's creative in a way that only looks at rules, and tends to break immersion in the setting. It's the same as the character who would run two squares south to get a running start on his jump to the northeast - mechanically doable, but in the "reality" of the game hard to visualize and thus essentially cheese that reminds everyone they are playing, essentially, a board game.

So, like I said - were you to do it at our table, I'd say no, and the other playes would agree with me and call "Cheese". Take that as you will - it's your game, and you can do whatever you want with it.

 

[Shin Okada]

As twilsemail has already pointed out, that is the first item, not the last one, which functions. But this is not a big issue anyway.

And I don't see much problem on the OP's way of using the cloak.

He is spending 3 minor actions and 1 standard action, plus 1 use of magic item's daily power, for spending 2 healing surges for healing without any additional hp regain (just his healing surge value x2). And at least, his NADs are somewhat lowered for almost one round (assuming the Cloak's enhancement bonus is lower then his Amulet).

With 4 minor actions, you can drink 2 potions. With Quick Draw feat or Potion Bandolier (L8 Waist slot item) you can do this even faster. Also, there are tons of magic items which allows one or one's ally to spend a healing surge. Some of them, like Divine Boons, do not even occupy an item slot. So, using 3 minor actions and 1 standard action for spending 2 surges is not that particularly strong.

And IMHO, Cloak of Walking Wounded is a somewhat over-rated item. Spending 2 healing surges without no bonus HP regain is, in a long term, not a good choice. Especially when your party fights many combat encounters per day.