Cloak of the Walking Wounded

[Istar]

I'd laugh hysterically saying "You burned 2 surges without any bonuses on them and took a whole turn to do it?!".

I'd allow it simply because it is such a poor use of resources (especially for those strikers hehhehhehheh)

Ah you get your Minor action striker attack in with CA.
And you heal with 2 surges.
And you live to be able to keep striking.
And I have heaps of surges anyway and the Cleric cant use all my surges up as he's working on the tanks.
And I have Stronheart Tatoo so I get heaps of extra HP.

I would say my Rogue would be laughing on the grave of your one and still fighting about half way through the encounter.

Hehe.. yes, very funny, to me.

 

[Istar]

Sorry, but that's not "creative". That's using the rules to bypass an effect and effectively have two slots in one place, and using whichever slot you prefer. Whether or not it's effective rules as written, what it winds up being is "My character wears two cloaks!" and you using the rules to get a mechanical effect.

There's no role-playing creativity here. It's essentially exploiting the rules (which are not actual rules of the game here, but your misreadings of them - but you can reverse engineer for a similar effect) in such a way that no character in a game would really do it. It is, as said above, nothing else than a "bag of rats".

It could be creative, if you want to look at it that way, but it's creative in a way that only looks at rules, and tends to break immersion in the setting. It's the same as the character who would run two squares south to get a running start on his jump to the northeast - mechanically doable, but in the "reality" of the game hard to visualize and thus essentially cheese that reminds everyone they are playing, essentially, a board game.

So, like I said - were you to do it at our table, I'd say no, and the other playes would agree with me and call "Cheese". Take that as you will - it's your game, and you can do whatever you want with it.

No one has yet shown me that this breaks the rules.
There is no exploitation, the character needs a cloak to keep warm anway, he uses his amulet the whole fight, towards the end its looking dangerous, the Cleric has no healing.
So the brave rogue quickly drops what he needs to so he can valiantly rip off his amulet, and activate his Cloak of the Wounded warrior, which is just in fact what he has turned out to be.

Next round he desperately struggles to get his amulet back on.
Which now after reading the sequence, is tricky and may take more rounds of minors than I thought.

 

[Istar]

As twilsemail has already pointed out, that is the first item, not the last one, which functions. But this is not a big issue anyway.

And I don't see much problem on the OP's way of using the cloak.

He is spending 3 minor actions and 1 standard action, plus 1 use of magic item's daily power, for spending 2 healing surges for healing without any additional hp regain (just his healing surge value x2). And at least, his NADs are somewhat lowered for almost one round (assuming the Cloak's enhancement bonus is lower then his Amulet).

With 4 minor actions, you can drink 2 potions. With Quick Draw feat or Potion Bandolier (L8 Waist slot item) you can do this even faster. Also, there are tons of magic items which allows one or one's ally to spend a healing surge. Some of them, like Divine Boons, do not even occupy an item slot. So, using 3 minor actions and 1 standard action for spending 2 surges is not that particularly strong.

And IMHO, Cloak of Walking Wounded is a somewhat over-rated item. Spending 2 healing surges without no bonus HP regain is, in a long term, not a good choice. Especially when your party fights many combat encounters per day.

The sort of thing I was thinking

 

[Istar]

This was a knee-jerk response and I apologise for it. Taking the idea for what it is I'd talk it over with the player. It's entirely possible that there'd be a flavorful reason for it to happen. Adventurers seem like the kinds of people who'd work out a way to get around the system.

One thing in this whole set up I'd change is the minor action to put on an amulet. I've helped my fiance do this enough times to know it takes two free hands and more effort than picking a stick up off the ground.

If it were that easy to remove one of a character's most important items, I imagine enemies would be making more Thievery checks.

I still do not appreciate the spirit of what's behind this set of actions, but I can see how it might, possibly, work in a role-playing atmosphere.

These are Heroe's buddy, they could probaly get her panties off without her knowing, they train for it.
Let me see a real life version of Blinding Barrage.

 

[Istar]

1. It's been shown in thread that your "simple interpretation of the rules" is just that: an interpretation,
2. I've mentioned, in this thread, why I dislike that sort of play.
3. I'll say it again: it's convoluted and reeks of rules manipulation. Doing it is the sort of thing that takes everyone out of the moment and makes the game very much a board game or war game. That may be fine for you, but it's not the sort of game I like.

After getting in a first meaningless jibe that added nothing to answer my question, like the first 3 or 4 posters without even backing up your opinion with reasoning.

 

[twilsemail]

Eleventy-bajillion posts.

Alright, two things.
1. Multi-Quote is your friend.

2. In response to all of those posts. It's Meta/Gamist/Rule-playing/whatever your preferred term is.

Those of us who posted negatively don't like that kind of thing. Those of us who posted positively do.

You're not going to change the nay-sayers' minds. You don't need to change the other guys' minds.

You like this kind of play and others don't.

Some people find this unimaginitive and prohibitive to RP. Some people think it's clever and creative.

Everyone is wrong from someone else's POV. If you are having fun, that's the only important thing.

Do you let your players think for themselves at all in your game, or do you just ponder thru each encounter as you would expect it to go, then move on to the next pre planned effort.

Actually, I found my players got in the way of my story. I stopped inviting them to games. Things run much more smoothly now that I run the PCs and the NPCs. I always win combat too.

 

[Ryujin]

A standard action to remove an amulet, and drinking a potion is still a minor, any OA's for that ?

Presumably an amulet isn't meant to be easily yanked off, so it takes somewhat more effort than a minor would account for. Well, at least if you ever hope to use that amulet again, that is. Now add to that, as someone else already pointed out, that the item you're removing was the FIRST one that you put on, not the last....

Drinking a potion may be a minor action but then again so is taking that potion out of a handy belt pouch, so that's TWO minor actions, unless you constantly walk around with a potion bottle in-hand. To me that means a standard action pretty much keeps the ability to get those two surges in line with the normal action economy. Putting the other item back is superfluous to that.

 

[Umbran]

Thats absolute rubbish, what backwater is Blacktown.

No, dude, rubbish is disagreeing with someone, and using that as the basis of an insult to them and their entire town. That's pretty darned shabby.

EN World's #1 Rule is "keep it civil". We expect you to not be a jerk, and to treat folks with respect, even (especially) when you disagree with them.

I hope that's clear. If not, please send an e-mail or Private Message to the moderator of your choice, and you can discuss it in depth. Thanks.

 

[Artoomis]

Pre Battle:
Put on "Cloak of Walking Wounded", then put on main neck slot item "Amulet".
The last neck slot item put on is the one that will operate.

But how about this:

When wounded and need healing.

Minor Action: rogue attack like Low Slash
Free Action: drop hand x.bow
Minor Action: remove neck slot item with off hand.
Standard Action: 2nd wind (2 healing surges).

Thereby gaining the use of the Cloak.

Next round:
Minor Action: Put amulet on.
Minor Action: Pick up x.bow

The best i can come up with is it would work like this (legally):

Pre-combat

1. Put on amulet.
2. Put on cloak (amulet still working as it was the first item put on in the neck slot)

Combat:

When wounded and need healing.

Minor Action: rogue attack like Low Slash
Free Action: drop hand x.bow
Minor Action: remove amulet (with off-hand) (It's reasonable to assume one can remove the amulet without first removing the cloak)
Standard Action: 2nd wind (2 healing surges).

Next round:
Free Action: Drop amulet (free up off-hand)
Minor Action Remove cloak & drop it (unclasp it with off-hand)
Minor action: Pick up amulet
Minor Action Put on amulet

Round three

Minor action Pick up hand x.bow

This is so far removed from being optimal as to be ludicrous. I'd sure allow it, though I think the rest of the party may object to the striker using two full rounds no attacks.

Of course, you could speed this up with appropriate feats and items, and that's fine due to the opportunity cost involved.

 

[Aegeri]

Istar: Did you really need to post 11 times in a row?