Cloaks of Charisma, Peripats of Wisdom, etc, QUESTIONS!

[Ridley's Cohort]

However, Chapter 1 of the PH specifically states what each ability modifier applies to. So, by the letter of the law, if your modifier is dropped, you suffer the penalties of a lowered modifier. Even from a rules-lawyer perspective, there really isn't any room for discussion.

It also specifically states that a wizard gains bonus spells based upon their Intelligence score. If your Intelligence score cannot support those bonus spells, then you lose them. You don't gain bonus spells only when you level. You gain them whenever your Intelligence score goes up, which means you lose them whenever your Intelligence score goes down.

Personally, I don't think it's just a matter of commen sense.

I am not arguing about whether there are consequences to losing a stat. We both agree that your allowable spells to cast for that day immediately changes, among other things.

I am arguing over what happens to already prepared spells. Their status is not quite so clearcut as you suggest. By the letter of the rules, an already prepared spell stays prepared until a rule explicitly removes that spell. Where is this explicit rule?

There are benefits of a stat that are not instantly removed when the stat temporarily drops. Frex, if your Int drops, you are not required to immediately scratch off skills ranks. A gray area does exist.

Another example: Does a wizard who fails his save against Feeblemind instantly lose ALL his prepped spells? What if he is Healed the next round? Remember that you must have an Int of 10 + <spell level> to cast or prepare a given spell. Consider your answer carefully; this will have a huge effect on the play value of the spell against wizards.

I just don't happen to find it illogical for a spellcaster to have spells prepared he is not capable of casting that day. Perhaps it seems more logical to you to disallow it. I admit that is a very reasonable extrapolation from the rules.

I just happen to believe that the counterintuitive answer is actually easier to use and closer to the letter of the law.

 

[kreynolds]

I am arguing over what happens to already prepared spells.

I know, I'm just having a hard time making the leap to your perspective. I'm trying though.

For me, it's pretty cut and dry, like this: Where does a prepared bonus spell reside? In a bonus spell slot. What happens when your primary spellcasting stat drops too far? You lose a bonus spell slot. What happens when you lose a bonus spell slot? You lose the spell. Why? You don't have a spell slot to put it in. How can you have 9 first level spells when you only have a total of 8 slots available?

Where is this explicit rule?

From my point of view, it's in Chapter 1 of the PH. Like I said, you can't have a prepared bonus spell if you don't have a bonus slot to put it in. If you have 9 spells prepared, you need 9 slots to keep them in. If you only have 8 slots available, the 9th spell doesn't just hang out there in limbo, ready to use or not.

The bottom line is that you can't have a spell without a spell slot, and the number of spell slots you have is directly relatated to your level. Lose enough levels and you lose spell slots, thus you lose spells. The number of bonus spell slots you have is directly related to your primary casting ability. Lose enough of your primary casting ability and you lose your bonus spell slots, thus you lose spells.

There are benefits of a stat that are not instantly removed when the stat temporarily drops. Frex, if your Int drops, you are not required to immediately scratch off skills ranks.

You don't lose skill ranks for losing Intelligence. Your mod for Intelligence based skills goes down. You lose ranks when you lose a level.

Another example: Does a wizard who fails his save against Feeblemind instantly lose ALL his prepped spells? What if he is Healed the next round? Remember that you must have an Int of 10 + <spell level> to cast or prepare a given spell. Consider your answer carefully; this will have a huge effect on the play value of the spell against wizards.

No, he doesn't lose his spells, but for good reason. His Intelligence didn't drop. That Feeblemind spell specifically states that the affected creature is unable to cast spells, and this is due to the fact that they have an effective Intelligence score of 1. Feeblemind doesn't deal Ability Damage. It is an effective ability score reduction. I think there's a difference between being feebleminded and having your Intelligence actually drained to a 1.

I just don't happen to find it illogical for a spellcaster to have spells prepared he is not capable of casting that day.

I don't find it unreasonable, but I do find it illogical.

Perhaps it seems more logical to you to disallow it. I admit that is a very reasonable extrapolation from the rules.

That's cool. I think that you allowing it is also a reasonable extrapolation from the rules.

I just happen to believe that the counterintuitive answer is actually easier to use and closer to the letter of the law.

No biggie. We just disagree.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Had a great idea, then had a thought. If you step into an Anti-Magic zone after hitting someone with Vampiric Touch, do you lose the HPs?

I was going to say that temp INT penalties would not lose you the spells, and that a deactivated item would, even if it goes down for just a round. Then I had to come up with some more kindling.

 

[Stalker0]

Had a great idea, then had a thought. If you step into an Anti-Magic zone after hitting someone with Vampiric Touch, do you lose the HPs?

I was going to say that temp INT penalties would not lose you the spells, and that a deactivated item would, even if it goes down for just a round. Then I had to come up with some more kindling.

Vampiric Touch is instantaneous, its not effected by an antimagic field.

 

[Darklone]

Hmm but if you get your INT drained to let's say 15.... you won't be able to CAST your 6th level spells, right guys?

 

[kreynolds]

Hmm but if you get your INT drained to let's say 15.... you won't be able to CAST your 6th level spells, right guys?

Right.