Clobbered Variant Rule and Level Drain (2 Separate Questions)

[IndySteve]

I have two separate questions. Feel free to help me with either one, both, or neither.

1.) Do you use the Clobbered variant rule from the DM's Guide (3.0, don't know if it's in 3.5 since I don't have the new book yet)? If not, why, and if so, do you treat it like criticals and stunning as far as affecting constructs, undead, and the like? Is there any way that you have modified this rule?


2.) A character in my party was recently drained of one level by a wight and failed his Fort save 24 hours later, thereby making it permanent. If he has Restoration cast on him within the time frame, he gets his level back. What happens to any experience he gained between the time when he was level drained and the time when he was Restored, is it lost? If you use training for next level rules in your campaign, do level drained characters that do not get Restored have to train when they get enough experience points to get that level back?

Thanks in advance for your responses!

-Steve

 

[sithramir]

I have two separate questions. Feel free to help me with either one, both, or neither.

1.) Do you use the Clobbered variant rule from the DM's Guide (3.0, don't know if it's in 3.5 since I don't have the new book yet)? If not, why, and if so, do you treat it like criticals and stunning as far as affecting constructs, undead, and the like? Is there any way that you have modified this rule?

Yes. constructs and undead are immune to this in my campaign as it wouldn't be detrimental to undead. They are still animate due to magic not life force and therefore it wouldn't matter.

2.) A character in my party was recently drained of one level by a wight and failed his Fort save 24 hours later, thereby making it permanent. If he has Restoration cast on him within the time frame, he gets his level back. What happens to any experience he gained between the time when he was level drained and the time when he was Restored, is it lost? If you use training for next level rules in your campaign, do level drained characters that do not get Restored have to train when they get enough experience points to get that level back?

Thanks in advance for your responses!

-Steve

If he is level drained and gets a restoration he doesn't get all his experience back. He only gets enough experience to bring him to the minimum for that level. Thats what is stated in the spell of restoration. So if he had 14000 exp (4000 past level and 1000 until next level). He would be drained from levle 5 to 4 and if restored would only be brought back up to 10000 exp the requirement to attain 5th level. Yes this sucks a lot cause he lost 4000 exp for failing a saving throw (but didn't lose more exp from it being permanent).

As to experience gained before the restoration its not a rule in the DMG so it could be played either way. I'd suggest making the restoration bring him to the minimum and keeping any exp after he got the drain added to that (unless you want to house rule the restoration bringing him to min and jsut giving all exp back) then i'd still say add it to that total.

For using training if he didn't get restored. Yes. He is effectively in every way one level lower as if he had died or restarted a new character at one level lower. Again this can just be house ruled since he was a level higher at one point.

This just shows how many people don't realize how powerful level draining is. If you want to shave a few thousand exp off of characters who advance too quickly throw a few wights at them. Even if they save they still lose exp by the restoration spells description.

 

[Magus Coeruleus]

Re: Re: Clobbered Variant Rule and Level Drain (2 Separate Questions)

Hey Sithramir,

How do you like using the clobbered variant? I really like the idea of it for the reasons given in the DMG suggesting it, but I've never used it because I'm afraid it would be a nightmare for me as DM. Players just have to worry about their own characters, but as DM if the players are up against a large host of baddies, sometimes I don't label each individual with its hitpoints and just ask the player to remember how much damage he/she did to it for me, to know whether it drops on the next hit. Tracking which ones get clobbered sounds like a pain, but I want to know what your experience is. Also, do you let PCs know when they've clobbered something? I can see arguments for telling them it's happened right away, or for making them wait and see what the thing does next round. The former option gives a lot of power to the PCs because they can plan actions around their knowledge that the foe will only have one action next round.

Thanks

 

[IndySteve]

Thanks sithramir! What about AOOs, do you allow Clobbered (or Staggered for that matter) combatants to use them or not? The rules don't say you can't, but I'm leaning towards no in my campaign. What do others think?

 

[sithramir]

Re: Re: Re: Clobbered Variant Rule and Level Drain (2 Separate Questions)

Hey Sithramir,

How do you like using the clobbered variant? I really like the idea of it for the reasons given in the DMG suggesting it, but I've never used it because I'm afraid it would be a nightmare for me as DM. Players just have to worry about their own characters, but as DM if the players are up against a large host of baddies, sometimes I don't label each individual with its hitpoints and just ask the player to remember how much damage he/she did to it for me, to know whether it drops on the next hit. Tracking which ones get clobbered sounds like a pain, but I want to know what your experience is. Also, do you let PCs know when they've clobbered something? I can see arguments for telling them it's happened right away, or for making them wait and see what the thing does next round. The former option gives a lot of power to the PCs because they can plan actions around their knowledge that the foe will only have one action next round.

Thanks

I think they are entitled to a spot check, though make it tough, to notice if they clobber someone. Just remember that it only lasts for one round. (You bash the ogre in the kneecap with your axe and he seems to stagger/sway, etc) (You might want to roll the spot check for them so they don't say "hey he asked for a spot its clobbered" if it happened a lot.

However, the key to a DM is organization. I would use some numbering system to let you know what creatures are where on the board and then writing the numbers in order horizontally with their hps under it. When they become clobbered place a c above the number and erase the round after. (You could even put c3 as in clobbered on the third round or for the third round) In case you forget to erase it. I also use this in excel printed sheets with their stats below. IE under the number 1 i have hps then ac then init then attack and damage, etc so I have all basics easily there. This way I can put most of the most used stuff all on one sheet.

I also do the round thing suggested in the DMG on small note cards.

............ ..1 2 3 4
Orc Bless ends c
Human stun ends
Cleric haste ends

This is another way to keep track. It can be bad with a ton of monsters but you can easily right 1 2 3 4 5 down the left hadn side of the sheet instead of 'orc".

 

[sithramir]

Thanks sithramir! What about AOOs, do you allow Clobbered (or Staggered for that matter) combatants to use them or not? The rules don't say you can't, but I'm leaning towards no in my campaign. What do others think?

"By the rules" they are still entitled to all AoO's. I, unfortunately, would hate to ruin the balance needed by attacks of opportunity by removing it just because they are only getting a standard. A standard is still an attack without moving so I would say yes give it to them. Perhaps remove the chance of multiple AoO's if they had Combat Reflexes.

But if you play for instance that someone slowed doesn't get it then you might want to add this to that. If not, i'd say keep it.


If i'm running and I get a whack to the head I might stumble and lose that "move equivalent action" but i'd still be able to "swing wildly" which is what I consider an AoO.