Close Wounds vs Coup de Grace?

[Kahuna Burger]

Close wounds is an immeidate action ranged healing spell which can explicitly save a character who has taken a hit reducing them to -10 or worse. What would happen if you used it when someone was being CdG-ed? Assuming the damage (after close wounds) wasn't enough to kill them outright, would the damage removed also be applied to the saving throw DC?

 

[pawsplay]

Well, the CDG save DC is based on the damage received, not the net result after healing. You would cast the spell as they took damage; they would be healed; then they would make the save and possibly die.

 

[frankthedm]

would the damage removed also be applied to the saving throw DC?

No. Damage has to be suffered before it can be cured. Whatever the damage is determines the CDG DC. Only if close wounds prevented damage would it impact the save DC.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Well, the CDG save DC is based on the damage received, not the net result after healing. You would cast the spell as they took damage; they would be healed; then they would make the save and possibly die.

The issue is that the spell says "If you cast this spell imediately after the subject takes damage, it effecively prevents the damage." And gives an example about saving even someone who had been dropped below -10 in a single hit. So in this particular case, the net damage after healing is the damage recieved in at least one example where it would matter. (and it says "for example" so its not a case of "they only mean in that case".) Hence my question.

 

[pawsplay]

Nonetheless, it occurs "immediately after the subject takes damage." Hence, the save has already been triggered.

 

[frankthedm]

The issue is that the spell says "If you cast this spell imediately after the subject takes damage, it effecively prevents the damage." And gives an example about saving even someone who had been dropped below -10 in a single hit. So in this particular case, the net damage after healing is the damage recieved in at least one example where it would matter. (and it says "for example" so its not a case of "they only mean in that case".) Hence my question.

You already have your answer then. Because of that line, the CDG save IS reduced.

 

[frankthedm]

Nonetheless, it occurs "immediately after the subject takes damage." Hence, the save has already been triggered.

Got to disagree with you there. By calling out the spell does prevent the damage, that drops the CDG DC considerably.

"If you cast this spell imediately after the subject takes damage, it effecively prevents the damage."

 

[pawsplay]

Would you then rule that the subject therefore did not take lethal damage and need not save?

 

[James McMurray]

I would.

 

[Kahuna Burger]

Would you then rule that the subject therefore did not take lethal damage and need not save?

Well, only if the close wounds removed all of the damage from the CdG, which seems unlikely - if you can't do more than 9 points of damage on a crit (max close wounds healing) you shouldn't have been wasting the full round anyway. My instinct would be to have the target save only against the balance of the damage, but I was curious what folks here would say.