CLOSED: Final uploaded. Thank you editors.

[Xorn]

Critical Hits
I'm listening to the podcasts at work (and on EnWorld--I'll do some work eventually) and just heard this about critical hits:

You maximize all dice that you would roll if it was just a normal hit. This indicates that the warlock's curse and the hunter's quarry are maximized on a critical. Mike or Dave (can't tell their voices apart all the time) specifically stated, "You still roll damage dice that are granted because you critted (like some weapons/magic items), but everything else is maximized.

Enjoy! It's one of the mailbag podcasts, but I'm listening on my iPod Switch, so I can't see the exact episode.

 

[Verys Arkon]

looking great. Didn't spot any errors right of the quick read through, though i only read the standard stuff, and skipped most of the high level stuff.

though it's cool to read, it's needless to have in the normal part of the phb lite, as we cannot use these skills without knowing more. (talking about high level spells)

I think it would be nicer to have in the back, like the player made stuff. But that's just me.

But a world of thanks for your great work.

Ah, this is one of those cases where you can't seem to please everyone . I've had several requests to include the higher level powers. I've argued your point before too up to v2.0, but ended up adding them in because they are known and it could be argued that they should be in a 'compilation' (even though I agree with you that PrRC is only really useful for level 1, maybe level two if you use some of the excellent fan-generated content from the OCC thread).

I also thought about adding them to the back, but since they are from an official source I put them in the main class chapter for consistency sake. Other classes also have a scattering of higher level powers.

 

[Verys Arkon]

Page 4, under Elf Weapon's Training: You missed the t in shortbow.

In addition, I suggest keeping the simple race write-ups featured in the PHB Lite 1.3.1 My players found these very helpful in trying to put together PCs. It needn't give full details such as what "Elven Accuracy" does, but including just that they receive it would help. I'll keep looking and see if anything else pops up.

Edit: Page 46 claims Rodney mentioned a player using his history skill to "had" which should likely be hide.

Edit: Under the traps section, you could add the Hynpotoad Trap Mearls unveiled at a con. I don't have the specifics but I think Chairwoman Gene posted them under the I-Con scoops?

I'll add the race summaries for the elf, halfling and tiefling back into the first part of the chapter. I had taken them out because another poster thought it was needlessly redundant. Just can't win

The Hypnotoad? Isn't that a joke from Futurama?

 

[Verys Arkon]

Amazing work!

I have some increasingly speculative comments:

Didn't people conclude that the halfling paladin was probably getting a +1 Def bonus from size/race? I don't see this bonus mentioned. You have a +1 all as a Paladin bonus, but I don't think that explains Corrin's Will defense.

This is how I see the calculations using PrRC (make sure you are using the newest versions of the pregens - Corrin's Will was indeed reduced by 2). It is certainly a point of contention. I posted my thoughts about the paladin's defenses here, quoted below:

I've enjoyed your Dragonborn paladin a lot, and I thought I'd jump in here to discuss Defenses a bit; I don't care if "I'm" right or not, I just want the PrRC to be as accurate as we can reasonably get, and if the discussion here helps all the better. (I use "I'm" loosely, since I've only selected what appeared to be the most well argued theory from amongst many, and didn't actually develop the theory myself). I'm certainly not a 4e expert, with no special access to the rules, and I'll be the first to acknowledge that some of the reverse engineering suffers from equifinality.


For Corrin's Defenses (using what is currently in PrRCv1.3.1),
AC 20 (10 + 2 heavy shield + 8 plate)
Fort 13 (10 +2 Str, +1 paladin)
Ref 14 (10 +1 Dex, +2 heavy shield, +1 paladin)
Will 14 (10 +3 Cha, +1 paladin)

and what you'd like to see is
AC 20 (10 + 2 heavy shield + 8 plate)
Fort 13 (10 +2 Str, +1 paladin)
Ref 14 (10 +1 Dex, +2 heavy shield, +1 halfling)
Will 14 (10 +3 Cha, +1 paladin)

First reason that I think Paladin's get +1 to all 3 defenses is that I think it is more balanced against a class that gets a single +2 (even though the sum is one greater). +2 in one defense, I would argue, is more powerful than +1 in two defenses, for the same reason a Jack-of-all-Trades is a Master-of-None. A focused character is generally more powerful than a generalist. +1 to 3 defenses seems somewhat better, IMO.

Second reason: Of all the races, only the human (as presented in PrRC, at any rate) gets any defense bonuses, which seems to go well with the 'durable' description from R&C nicely. It would seem odd that only one other race would get a +1 to a defense. Why not Dwarves getting +1 Fortitude, or Elves +1 Reflex, or Eladrin +1 Will? If you are going to give it to one race (besides humans, because they are 'special'), why not the others? I think the racial ability modifiers (+2 Dex, +2 Cha for halflings, as far as we can tell) are sufficient to represent the nimbleness of the halflings, and don't need a special +1 to Reflex defense in addition.

Third reason: the odd class out of the defenses in v1.3.1 is the Warlock, with +1 to two defenses. But the pregen still has an unidentified +1 AC. General opinion is that the +1 AC comes from a class trait/pact/build path. If that is the case, then all the classes will have either +2 to one defense, or +1 to three defenses. This seems to create a pretty good pattern between classes.

Fourth: Size modifiers are poorly understood at this point. It might be possible that halflings get a +1 Reflex defense from being "small". On the other hand, the halfling got a size boost to about 4 feet, and now move at 6 squares (assuming that heavy armor reduces speed by 1 to 5 for the pregen), and there doesn't seem to be a size bonus to attack or AC. Perhaps the effects of being classed 'small' are less meaningful in 4e.

...

And finally, this has probably been discussed to death but I thought there was a distinct possibility that the fighter does NOT get a +1 to attacks, but that Kathra uses Con for melee attack and damage (as a class/race/weapon feature), and gets +1 attack/damage from the weapon training feat? Probably this is too speculative to include.

I'd like this to be true, and I agree with you that is is likely a little too speculative at this point.

 

[Verys Arkon]

Page 10, first HP chart; extra space between 15 and + in the fighter row, Cons instead of Con in the wizard row. Second HP chart; Cons instead of Con in the wizard row.

Sharp eyes!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I was just using it to make a half-elf ranger and two things occurred to me:

1: Are you "sure" that Prime Shot is not a Half-Elf power? Looking at it on Tira (The half-elf warlock pregen), it doesn't strike me as a Warlock power. Makes me think Half-Elf.

2: You've got Half-Elf listed with a bonus language, because Tira has three. But Skamos (the Tiefling Wizard) ALSO has three languages. We can assume he got the extra one from his 20 Int. Perhaps the bonus language occurs at a 15 int, which is what Tira has.

Also, curiously, Skamos only has 3 trained skills other than stealth (which he paid a feat for) Unless I'm missing something, this implies that either the wizard gets three, or he paid the feet to take a cross-class skill. I'd bet the first one.

PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong. If all this was discussed elsewhere, I apologize.

Fitz

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Looking at it furthur, I think the evidence for Prime Shot being a Warlock power is in its alphabetical listing amongst the warlock powers on Tira's sheet.

Here's another one though: Why does Riadon have two feats? I don't see bonus feat under either Eladrin or Ranger in the PrRC, and clearly it's got to be one or the other.

Oh and one more: I was working up a Warlord, and it seems to me that Distracting Attack is VERY powerful. What is the source on that? It seems strange to me that the attack would be bases on the normal attack value of a basic attack, but attack WILL, AND hit or miss give an int bonus to another attacker. Any comments?


Fitz

 

[TheLordWinter]

Oh and one more: I was working up a Warlord, and it seems to me that Distracting Attack is VERY powerful. What is the source on that? It seems strange to me that the attack would be bases on the normal attack value of a basic attack, but attack WILL, AND hit or miss give an int bonus to another attacker. Any comments?

I would be the source for the Warlord; I made it since we hadn't gotten anything from Wizards on it. It should be changed though to give a +2 power bonus instead of Int mod though. It attacks Will due to the opponent's effort not only to concentrate upon dealing with your attack but to watch out for the ally you're setting up. Do you think it should be changed to hitting AC then?

 

[Henry]

Verys, looks like you have some more stuff to add to your draft.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080416a

The powers table alone was a pretty neat addition!

 

[FitzTheRuke]

I would be the source for the Warlord; I made it since we hadn't gotten anything from Wizards on it. It should be changed though to give a +2 power bonus instead of Int mod though. It attacks Will due to the opponent's effort not only to concentrate upon dealing with your attack but to watch out for the ally you're setting up. Do you think it should be changed to hitting AC then?

Well, the problem I have with it is the fact that it uses the same mechanic as a basic attack to attack Will (IE you get your proficiency bonus and all that) So in making a Half-Elf ranger (who gets an at-will from another class, With an 18 dex and a 16 int. he has his choice of:


+10 vs AC for 1D10 Damage
+6 vs AC for 1D10+4 and can shift before or after
or
+6 vs Will for 1D10+3 and gives an ally +3 to Attack the same target

It's really no contest. Diestracting strike is FAR more powerful, especially taking into account that the vast majority of monster's will is significantly less than their AC.

Can't say off hand how I'd solve it.

Fitz